HC coated HP?

Discussion in 'Reloading Room' started by lklawson, Mar 18, 2016.

  1. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    OK, I'm deep into another info-dig as I'm trying to learn about handloading for 9x19 Luger (Parabellum/etc.).

    I've found commercial offerings for various Hard Cast (HC) and jacketed bullets in 9mm (.355). There also appears to be a great deal of Plated bullets, including a few Hollow Point (HP) offerings in Plated. Naturally, these are more expensive than HC but less than JHP (Jacketed Hollow Point). From what I can tell, Plated bullets use the same load data as HC. (right?) I've also seen some HC HP bullets, though not very many.

    There is also apparently a growing trend for "Coated" HC bullets. These, apparently offer superior lubricating and anti-fouling/anti-leading to traditional lubes for HC and, like Plated, still use the same load data as HC. Basically the advantages of Plated but at reduced cost.

    However, I've not yet seen any commercial HC Coated HP bullets.

    Why not? Am I missing something? Have the coaters just not got around to offering this product yet?

    At the moment this question is 100% purely academic to me, but it does make me curious. If there is a market for Plated, Plated HP, and Coated HC, why wouldn't there also be a market for HC Coated HP?

    Thanks. :)

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  2. histed

    histed Supporting Member

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    I'm not sure, but it may have to d with coating HP bullets. There are a couple of ways to do coating - spraying or "shake and bake" are the most common. Since I don't do it myself (I tumble lube) I won't make a definitive statement, but I think the HP would have a tendency to fill with coating. Could be it just isn't worth the hassle to the commercial casters and big ammo guys. Be interesting to ask the guys on teh Cast Boolits site.
     

  3. Dane

    Dane Supporting Member

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    JHP 124gr are less than 12 cents each.
     
  4. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    I'm cheap. :)

    Peace favor your sword (mobile)
     
  5. 60ratrod

    60ratrod STFU CARL! Member

    I strictly use plated for my target pistol rounds. I haven't looked into pricing for jhp, but i should for 1911. I got lucky after rbs opened their doors on their indoor range and got a box of misc 38/357 jhp slugs for like $20 irrc. Some are winchester, some are Montana gold 125gr jhp. I'm still working up a 125gr 9mm load. But for rounds for the range, plated work fantastically, and yes, you use cast slug data. Best part is less powder, and less powder means more range fun
     
  6. noylj

    noylj Member

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    What good is a L-HP? Unless you cast the ogive much softer than the base, it will not expand. You want a bullet with a wide, flat meplat.
    Anyone who thinks plated are a bargain, hasn't looked at Precision Delta, Zero, or Montana Gold.
    Please, look at Precision Delta.
    If you order 2000 or more, you can get 115gn JHP for $85/100 and 124gn JHP for $89/1000. They are excellent bullets and quite accurate. That is under 9 cents/bullet.
    From my testing, you can't do better than Zero bullets. From Powder Valley, you can get Zero 115gn JHP for $283.50/3000 (~9.5 cents/bullet) or Zero 125gn JHP for $299.25/3000 (10 cents/bullet)—and well worth every penny.
    If you want to load your own self-defense rounds, you can buy a 100 of the same weight JHPs and compare a few with the less expensive and save the rest for your carry ammo.
    If you want to hunt, there are much better cartridges.
    For any other job, the PD will be almost as good as you could possible get (and the Zeros are as good as any other for accuracy) and both are much superior to plated.
     
  7. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    My understanding was that plated and coated bullets could safely use a slightly softer alloy without leading the barrel.

    That asside, the question was related to the fact that there are Plated HP and HC HP but no Coated HP, not so much about what the alternatives are.

    So, why not?

    Peace favor your sword (mobile)
     
  8. 60ratrod

    60ratrod STFU CARL! Member

    I have yet to have any copper or lead fouling from plated. And like i said, you use less powder. And less powder means more bullets made!
     
  9. noylj

    noylj Member

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    Except for Precision Bullets, all other coated bullets I have seen are cast. To cast a HP, you have to have a mold with pins the create the cavity in the mold as the lead is poured and these pins must be removed before the mold is opened. This is, for a small operation as almost all cast bullet companies are, a hand-only operation and the bullets will be VERY expensive. They simply wouldn't have the capital to design and make equipment to automate the production--at least not unless there was a HUGE demand of pre-paid orders to pay for development and all.
    For Precision Bullets, they can incorporate the hollow point rod in the swaged die, so making HPs isn't that much more expensive.
    Now I love cast lead bullets, but I can't argue with the consistency of weight and dimensions of swaged bullets and I find Precision Bullets are a bit more accurate than other coated bullets I have tried. The only one close was MasterBlaster.
    Next, almost all the HPs you are probably looking at are not hunting/self-defense bullets, they are designed as target bullets. My own ranking of handgun bullet style in terms of accuracy is: JHP/L-SWC/L-SWCHP, FMJ-FN/L-CFN, FMJ-RN/L-RN--I don't even have a place for the plated bullets I have tried.
     
  10. That is more than I want to spend on target ammo.

    I cast my own and lead is cheap plus been getting free lead lately so my reloads coast less than 22s.
     
  11. B_Cassidy

    B_Cassidy Member

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    Bearing surface and ballistic coefficient.

    A 124 grain solid bullet will be X long. A 124 grain hollow point of the same profile will be longer to make up for weight lost in the nose to be X+Y long. Some guns shoot such things better. They also emulate the profile of defensive ammo so some people like training with them better. The price difference between Berry's 124 grain plated flat point and 124 grain plated hollow point on Graf's is a penny per shot and their 124 grain round nose is the same price as the hollow point so no real biggie.

    A few people also think they will fragment more readily when hitting steel and feel safer with them. That one isn't really well founded but whatever.
     
  12. noylj

    noylj Member

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    Yes, nice and accurate for Bullseye competition (185gn L-SWCHP), but I thought the point was hunting or self-defense, where I don't see a L-HP having any virtue.
    So, if I misunderstood, sorry.
     
  13. B_Cassidy

    B_Cassidy Member

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    Berry's and maybe Rainier, if I remember correctly, do make plated hollow points designed to expand:

    https://www.berrysmfg.com/item/bp-40-401-180gr-hhp

    There's a niche market for you. Not only the minority willing to carry reloads, but those who are willing to cheap out on new things rather than buy bulk Gold Dot/XTP/Silvertip and make sure their chrono numbers are in the performance zone. They kinda tempt me to try in a gel block and maybe stack some away in event another ammo panic causes a shortage of good carry ammo.
     
  14. 454PB

    454PB Member

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    I've only been doing powder coating for a short time, but yes, a hollow point would present a problem. It could be overcome by building a cooking rack that would allow placing the bullets "on" pins up side down. Some guys go to great lengths to powder coat gas checked bullets and avoid coating the recessed area where the gas check fits.

    One of the advantages of powder coating is that you can use a softer alloy without having to worry about leading. With that in mind, a soft alloy powder coated bullet at 1100 fps should expand violently.