[HiPoint45]

I like the private charity selection, nothings perfect but that seems to strip some buearacracy away. More hands on I guess in assessing the need. And I always like people having the choice to help rather than being forced to..one statistic that will change if all these new programs are passed..I think you will find we quickly lose the distinction of being the most charitable nation. I know it will for me..some months I'm flush with cash and can spread some around to causes/charities I deem worthy...some months not so much.

 

[HiPoint45]

of course, but do enough people in this country feel that way to support those who cannot provide for themselves?

in the richest country in the world, i just don't see how we can accept that there are those who do not get the healthcare they need for want of the money. its immoral.

I will disagree a tad here, even in countries with so called universal healthcare or single payer system or whatever you want to call it...people don't always get the healthcare they "need", if they did expalin why mortality rates are higher for prostate or breast cancer in canada or england compared to the US?

 

[HiPoint45]

I believe we should nationalize oil, coal and natural gas as well as essential utilities such as electricity and water. No longer would our money be going to greedy corproations and their investors, but to support health care and education. I know some of you will scream socialism but take a look at the following links and see how we rank against so-called "socialist" western nations in Human Development, Education, and Quality of Life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_Index
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality-of-life_index

So we should become socialists and turn our industries into govt owned entities to move up an average of 0.35 on these so called scales? My quality of life is fine thanks I don't want to live in Spain or Ireland or (shudder) France. As far as being 15th those places on that scale are separated by 0.18 hardly a blip someone has to be first, looking at the list I'm quite happy at 15th. So you purpose we just steal all the companies invested money and equipment for the greater good hmmm? Well I will scream socialism at that. How do you think things get accomplished by govt fiat? No it takes capital, risk taking and so on. I believe what you term as "greedy corporations" have propelled much of our development or do you think the pc you're typing on would have been developed faster if MicroFed was in charge of it? Also using your wikipedia lists I notice the country who stole our countries investment in their oil...Venezuela, heavily "nationalized" ,is 59th on the quality of life index. Thanks but no thanks, stealing from people isn't a way to implement anything in this country whether it be stealing my hard earned money in unfair taxes or stealing legitimate businesses by nationalization.

 

[HiPoint45]

And if public health care is socialism and will always fail, how do you explain all the countries allied to us, countries like Canada, Japan, Germany, Finland, the UK, where they have national health care?

How do you explain all the canadians who slide south to the US because they can't get the healthcare they they need with their public option? Or the disparity in cancer survival rates between europe (and the UK specifically) and the US? With the survival rate being some 20% higher in the US? Also yes the CCC got some things done but what other choice was there for an unemployed starving man? Notice how quickly it disbanded through desertion , men leaving for real jobs, the war effort etc,I'm fairly certain CCC was over in the early 40's, you know when people got bacck on their feet. I'm sure Obamas CCC will be effective too because soon we will probably be in the same pickle. Might I suggest you read Amity Shlaes book The Forgotten Man for a slightly different perspective on FDR's programs and who really bankrolled them..the common man who was still working.

 

[HiPoint45]

[Seriously?

The CCC was disbanded because a little thing called WW2 happened in the early 40s. Not just because people got back on their feet. And could people have gotten back on their feet without that government intervention? You say "what other choice was there for an unemployed starving man?", I say "Exactly."

So now the debate is we have better healthcare but its not affordable? We just keep moving the goalposts don't we? Could you show me the people who were denied healthcare here because of lack of insurance or no money? No one wants to acknowledge the fact that if you walk in the hospital here they treat you. As far as Canadians by percentage I don't have that I'll try to find it, but are you claiming it doesn't happen? Does it cost them $? of course..but ask the question, if free healthcare is such a panacea, why are they willing to pay that said $? Perhaps they feel better alive and broke temporarily than free healthcare and dead.
If only the war was what disbanded ccc why didn't it swing back into operation after say ..oh ..1946? As far as "exactly" I meant there was no other choice because instead of fixing the problem and encouraging capitalism to succeed FRD rammed CCC though in like the first 40 or 50 days after inauguration....sound familiar? By my saying it was indeed the only choice offered to the unemployed at that time in no way means I endorse it or think it was a wise choice. If you're starving and someone offers you a 3 day old dead rat you'll eat it, but of course if the kitchen was run properly a nice steak is always preferable.

 

[HiPoint45]

Well as our minds are made up I see no need for further debate, and I certainly don't agree that FDR was one of our greatest presidents, and before you scream republican bias I didn't much care for the other Roosevelt either. Of course since you want to blame Hoover would you care to step back a few years to Wilson who the fed reserve was created under? Alot of theories place the feds raised interest rates trying to curb wallstreet speculation and then did nothing to keep the money supply from failing. Of course causes are still debated but I'm just saying it's easy for knee jerks on your side of the aisle too.

As far as your examples..they are all from the California Nurses association Guaranteed healthcare site..I'm sure thats not biased at all. But you did give 5 examples so you did what I asked. 5 out 300,000,000....hmmm weren't you giving Rhodes static cause he only sited one road project for you? Tell us your story at SinglePayer.com...lol