Hi-Point Firearms Forums banner
1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,308 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I copied this all from the opinion for anyone who didn't feel like reading all the legal language. It's taken from about the first half of the document. I made a couple of parenthetical insertions as references to an older court case. I feel like it's the Fourth of July!!!! The Bill of Rights lives!

"The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a
firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for
traditionally lawful purposes…Interpretation of the Second Amendment by scholars, courts Legislators, from immediately after its ratification through the late 19th century also supports the Court’s conclusion
The Amendment could be rephrased, “Because a well regulated Militia is necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.†(1867 court case)
“Right of the People.†The first salient feature of the operative clause is that it codifies a “right of the people.†The unamended Constitution and the Bill of Rights use the phrase “right of the people†two other times, in the First Amendment’s Assembly-and-Petition Clause and in the Fourth Amendment’s Search-and-Seizure Clause. The Ninth Amendment uses very similar terminology (“The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the peopleâ€). All three of these instances unambiguously refer to individual rights, not “collective†rights, or rights that may be exercised only through participation in some corporate body. Nowhere else in the Constitution does a “right†attributed to “the people†refer to anything other than an individual right.

As we will describe below, the “militia†in colonial America consisted of a subset of “the peopleâ€â€”those who were male, able bodied, and within a
certain age range. Reading the Second Amendment as protecting only the right to “keep and bear Arms†in an organized militia therefore fits poorly with the operative clause’s description of the holder of that right as “the
people.†Some have made the argument, bordering on the frivolous, that only those arms in existence in the 18th century are protected by the Second Amendment. We do not interpret constitutional rights that way. Just as the First Amendment protects modern forms of communications, From our review of founding-era sources, we conclude that this natural meaning was also the meaning that “bear arms†had in the 18th century. In numerous in-
stances, “bear arms†was unambiguously used to refer to the carrying of weapons outside of an organized militia.“bear arms†did not refer only to carrying a weapon in an organized military unit.
Putting all of these textual elements together, we find that they guaran-
tee the individual right to possess and carry weapons in case of confrontation. This meaning is strongly confirmed by the historical background of the Second Amendment. We look to this because it has always been widely understood that the Second Amendment, like the First and Fourth Amendments, codified a pre-existing right.
(1787 court case) It was understood across the political spectrum that the right helped to secure the ideal of a citizen militia, which might be necessary to oppose an oppressive military force if the constitutional order broke down. It is therefore entirely sensible that the Second Amendment’s prefatory clause announces the purpose for which the right was codified: to prevent elimination of the militia. The prefatory clause does not suggest that preserving the militia was the only reason Americans valued the ancient right; most undoubtedly thought it even more important for self-defense and hunting."

please not I did not include anything about the dissenting opinion because I am biased against.......... LOSERS!!!!! HA.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
264 Posts
"JUSTICE GINSBURG wrote that “urely a most familiar meaning is,as the Constitution’s Second Amendment . . . indicate: ‘wear, bear, or carry . . . upon the person or in the clothing or in a pocket, for the purpose . . . of being armed and ready for offensive or defensive action in a case of conflict with another person.’†Id., at 143 (dissenting opinion)

I just finished reading the Syllabus from the court found here; http://www.supremecourtus.gov/opinions/07pdf/07-290.pdf

"Meaning of the Operative Clause. Putting all of these textual elements together, we find that they guarantee
the individual right to possess and carry weapons in case of confrontation. This meaning is strongly confirmed by the historical background of the Second Amendment."


Living in Wisconsin where NO FORM OF COCEALED CARRY is allowed for anyone except Leos, is most important to me. My State now has 21 days to figure out rules and guidelines for issuing CC permits!

The Supremes got it right my fellow Americans!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
831 Posts
Deadscott, when we finally do get CC in this state, I'll be first in line with ya to sign up :)
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
1,792 Posts
I would expect them to Make training a requirement and of course outragiuos price to the AG's office and one long arse wait.

KS is 110$ to the AG 40 to the local LEO and a min 45 day wait. This of course after the CCW Class.

SO I expect that you guys have some work ahead of you.

And We are here for your support for the long wait. OH and it is a head ache. Paper work. Pictures more paper work. Long wait. And off course the all mighty Dollar.

But it is worth it.

I am pulling for you all in such situations. :p:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
974 Posts
"JUSTICE GINSBURG wrote that “urely a most familiar meaning is,as the Constitution’s Second Amendment . . . indicate: ‘wear, bear, or carry . . . upon the person or in the clothing or in a pocket, for the purpose . . . of being armed and ready for offensive or defensive action in a case of conflict with another person.’†Id., at 143 (dissenting opinion)

I just finished reading the Syllabus from the court found here; http://www.supremecourtus.gov/opinions/07pdf/07-290.pdf

"Meaning of the Operative Clause. Putting all of these textual elements together, we find that they guarantee
the individual right to possess and carry weapons in case of confrontation. This meaning is strongly confirmed by the historical background of the Second Amendment."


Living in Wisconsin where NO FORM OF COCEALED CARRY is allowed for anyone except Leos, is most important to me. My State now has 21 days to figure out rules and guidelines for issuing CC permits!

The Supremes got it right my fellow Americans!


Don't get your hopes up, the majority opinion (page 2 paragraph 2) says:

2. Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited.
It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any
manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed
weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment
or state analogues.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,308 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
fourboxes, that says it will be left up to the states. That's the way it is now.
Do you take it to mean something else?

Rates vary for CCW classes in AR, and the fee to State Police is 140. My class cost 135 if I recollect. 5 year permit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
325 Posts
KS is 110$ to the AG 40 to the local LEO and a min 45 day wait. This of course after the CCW Class.
Sounds a lot like infringement to me.

infringe
verb
1. go against, as of rules and laws; "He ran afoul of the law"; "This behavior conflicts with our rules" [syn: conflict]
2. advance beyond the usual limit [syn: encroach]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,549 Posts
Yeah, states do vary a lot. In my state, I had to submit photo and application, wait about six weeks for background checks, then pay $10. AL doesn't require a class. I suspect gun friendly states will get even friendlier and gun-un-friendlier states will use "regulations" as a deterrent to gun ownership, but I hope not. hang in there!
 
G

·
In AZ: When I got my CCW, the cost was: $120, total. That included the class, $60 (including fingerprinting), and the AZ DPS fee of $60. I took the class on saturday, dropped off my aplication on monday, and two and a half weeks later, got my permit.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,308 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
$120!! can you say 'bargain'? I feel like I got ripped off now...
It took about 4.5 weeks to get mine back. And from everyone else I talked to, it was extremely fast. I know my b/g check was a breeze though, b/c of secret service clearance. Lots of folks have been waiting and waiting and waiting...
Loopster is correct, that is exactly how states will limit rights. For instance, NYC allows handguns, but makes it almost impossible to get a permit (according to someone I know who lived there).
AR can't get any gun friendlier, unless they start handing them out at the capitol or something :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
974 Posts
fourboxes, that says it will be left up to the states. That's the way it is now.
Do you take it to mean something else?

Rates vary for CCW classes in AR, and the fee to State Police is 140. My class cost 135 if I recollect. 5 year permit.
The post I quoted from Deadscott said that he was looking forward to changes in his state based off this decision. It seems to me that the decision still leaves the door open for states to infringe on the right, especially regarding CCW.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,308 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
The post I quoted from Deadscott said that he was looking forward to changes in his state based off this decision. It seems to me that the decision still leaves the door open for states to infringe on the right, especially regarding CCW.
Gotcha. And many states will do exactly that.
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top