Hey Rach, Why don't you tell us how you really feel?

Discussion in 'Lounge' started by MachoMelvin, Apr 28, 2015.

  1. MachoMelvin

    MachoMelvin Well-Known Member

    Now, on to the controversial reason why I choose not to stand with any organized religions or affiliate with a single political party.

    Because it's all bull****. Church, synagogue, temple, mosques, you don't need ANY of them to have faith. You don't need to belong to some massive flock to believe in a higher power. Your faith is derived from your personal moral and ethical code and a belief in something bigger than all of us. All organized religions have had their hands in politics from the beginning. In the US they are giant tax exempt conglomerates. Look at these televangelists with their massive buildings and opulent lifestyles. Send me $5 for my sweaty prayer rags, send me $10 for this holy water I blessed, pay $100 for a ticket to my show. It reminds me of the vendors walking around professional sports venues barking, 'popcorn, peanuts, hot dogs, and God here!"
  2. Rerun

    Rerun Member

    I just read that somewhere else...


  3. sdbrit68

    sdbrit68 Supporting Member

    I cant argue with any of that.........but, just as I respect others opinions, I hope they respect mine to be afiliated with a church, I dont pass judgement on others, they dont pass judgement on me..................then all is good.

    Either way, if I got a dollar, and you are starving, I will give you half
  4. Rachgier

    Rachgier Administrator Staff Member

    Am I wrong? Is your faith bound by a building? Do you not find the 'prayer for hire' preachers to be bastardizing the basic tenets of what your belief system was founded on? Are your prayers worth any more or less than the next person's because of where you choose to speak them?

    Mod Note: I know this is a straight up religious conversation and should go to the Dark Rooms. HOWEVER, because Melvin does not have access to that area, I'll leave it open here as long as it doesn't get too far out of hand. I would ask that anyone who participates in this discussion make every attempt to remain civil, level-headed, and keep their responses from devolving in to personal attacks. I will not be operating as a mod or admin in this discussion after this post and any issues will be handled by another staffer.
  5. Bull

    Bull Just a Man Supporting Member

    I came to be a believer again in a small (20 people) church, that would best be described as Pentecostal..... Full bore...
    I've since moved on to large churches in the two towns I've lived in since, one a First Baptist, and the current a non-denom.... Both were/are straight out of the Bible teaching churches, and I haven't found any real problems with them.... But I've always put their lessons to the test, and they've always stayed within the guidelines I expect. Lessons garnered from the Bible, with scripture to back it up, no interpretations to stretch a point, just scripture.
    I'm far from an ideal Christian, to lecture anyone else on how or why they should worship any one way, but I try to live my life the best I can, and though I may fall woefully short, I'd rather attempt to live by Jesus' examples, than any others out there.
  6. Rachgier

    Rachgier Administrator Staff Member

    To put this in context, the entire post that this excerpt was cherry picked from was based on a response I received to a comment I made saying people in general apply stereotypical labels ad hoc without taking in to account the broader scope of the word they have turned in to a label. It related specifically to the term "liberal." The person who responded took offense to my statement thinking that I was attacking him for calling all liberals gun grabbers and saying I choose not to affiliate with one political party or organized religion based on their predilection to using stereotypes and rhetoric.

    My post:
    His reply:
    My reply:

  7. bluharley

    bluharley Member

    There's something going on, don't know if it's God, ET, or what. I guess technically God would be an ET, but I'll keep them separate. But things have happened to me that defy explanation. I just don't know.:confused: Don't care for organised religion.
  8. Rerun

    Rerun Member

    Lighten up Rachgier!

    Those are words spoken by folk from the 'other' hi-point website!

    (sorry, ex_isp)

  9. sdbrit68

    sdbrit68 Supporting Member

    No, it is not.........but not all professional preachers are bad, and no, mine are not worth more.

    WHile I am still with an organized church, I feel the most important thing is how I live my life, but, there are good and bad cops, good and bad doctors, good and bad preachers...........it is what it is
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 29, 2015
  10. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

    NE Utah
    In the past, as recorded in the Bible, God had representatives, prophets, on Earth. People that worshipped God followed those prophets, and thus belonged to a "church", or a "faith" or a "covenant people" that lived by certain principles and standards.

    They were required to do certain things, and those things were required to be done in sacred places, often called a "temple", and sometimes officiated by certain people with certain authority.

    If God has shared His power and authority with man in the past, and had things arranged to work in a "temple" as an organized "church"...why not in the present?

    Now don't be upset, anyone. This is just my thinking, I'm not calling anyone out, I'm confident that God is happy with anyone that is trying to come closer to Him, in any way they can. We humans aren't perfect, and I'm certain intent and faith goes a long way, I'm definitely not qualified to pass judgement on anyone.:p
  11. tallbump

    tallbump Supporting Member

    To piggy back on Al, the New Testament is full of local churches. Paul wrote man of the Epistles directly to an individual church. The Book of Revelation addresses specific churches.

    Now, a "church" will have faults. They are led and composed of men, and men have faults. Some men will use their position in a negative way, and make it into being all about money, but that doesn't mean all are that way.

    Just within Christianity, there are many different ways churches are ran.

    Just as one example, I got to an Independent Fundamental Baptist church. The Independent part means exactly that. We answer to no one but the Lord. We have no governing board, no "diocese", no men anywhere telling us how to run our church.

    That, obvioulsy, varies greatly from say a Catholic church.

    My point of this isn't to say which is right or wrong, but to say that you can't make a generalized statemnt to encompass all "churches' when there are so many subtle differences.

    Now, I won't speak on "religions", because I don't know much about say, Budhism, Islam, etc..but to get back to the initial statement discussed, no, to believe in the one God, the God of the Holy Bible, He makes it pretty clear that he wants His followers to belong to a "church". It is not necessary for Salvation, and in fact, has nothing to do with Salvation, but it is good for a believer to belong to a group of believers.
  12. papataylor

    papataylor Member

    In Revalations John the Revalator writes of the marriage of Jesus to His bride, the Church (symbolic of the entire Christian population) this sort of symbolism speaks to the importance of organized religion.

    Does organized religion have to be a big box mega church, or even a major denomination?

    Jesus answered that directly: "Where two or three are gathered together, there too I will be"

    Some of the most intimate moments of worship I've experienced have been in huts, shanties, and in remote outdoor locations, not a sanctified church house.

    Does a Christian need to be part of organized religion? Yes. It's called the body of Christ for a reason, we're all apart of it.

    Does organized religion need to be mainstream? No.
  13. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    Like Christianity, there is a great deal of variation and many different "sects" of both Buddhism and Islam with differing interpretations and degrees of "fundamentalism" (some of which I personally consider "bad" and some not so much). I've studied both to some degree, going so far as to read "The Gospel of Buddha" and to try to wade through the Koran.

    One of the most interesting things to me about Buddhism is this. Like most religions, it lays out a set of fundamental principles on how its adherent is to treat his fellows. The fundamentals are essentially the same as those of Christianity. To whit, fair dealings, honesty, "golden rule," charity & care for the widows and orphans (those who are literally incapable of caring for themselves), prohibitions against taking what is owned by another (physical or otherwise), and admonitions toward humility (at one point Siddhartha, an Indian prince who renounced his position, chastises his disciples for performing miracles).

    I'm also keen on Sikhism, particularly appreciating the symbology of their Kirpan. There's a Sikh Temple in Riverside, which abuts to Huber Heights (where I live), and is only a few miles from my house. I'm happy to have it there and wouldn't mind a bit if it were closer.

    Organized religions, which many people are opposed to, allow many advantages which are often overlooked by detractors. The greatest of these revolves around developing a "community" which cooperates, cares for each other, and provides emotional support, friendship, and many other "village/tribe" advantages which research suggests are absolutely critical to the human psyche.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2015
  14. Rachgier

    Rachgier Administrator Staff Member

    See, for me a local church isn't organized religion. Okay,I acknowledge the fact that it is a religious organization, but it qualifies more as a local community group that gathers based on their faith. I'm talking about the echelons above that. The folks who run the show. I've sat through services for just about every western religion I know of. I went to Catholic school, sang in the choir, was an altar boy in a huge church, St Thomas More, in Bethel Park, PA. I was also an altar boy at a much smaller church, St. Mary's, in Buffalo, NY.

    What really killed me on religion was when I was at St Thomas we got 3 new priests, 2 of whom ended up being defrocked for child molestation at their previous parish. The third was shipped off to yet another parish somewhere. Why would you send 3 priests under investigation for pedophilia to a parish where the priests taught class and had daily interactions with school age children? Mind you I didn't find out about any of this until after we had moved away, but my parents went off the deep end so that's how I found out.

    To liken it to something I'm more familiar with explanation wise, the local churches are the boots on the ground. It's the command structure above it that I take issue with. Therefore I choose not to believe. Everyone else who does, does so of their own free will and I hold no grudges, nor would I ever condemn or ridicule them for it. Hell, I'll sit down and discuss religion all day long. My own moral and ethical codes are derived from a strict Catholic upbringing. If I hold your belief in god against you, I'm literally sh*tting on everything my parents and grandparents ever tried to instill in me. That would make me the worst kind of hypocrite ever.
  15. Bull

    Bull Just a Man Supporting Member

    Well put Rach!
  16. tallbump

    tallbump Supporting Member

    Well, in that case, I agree completely.

    Those are some of the reasons why my local church is 100% autonomous.

    We as church members, and only we, can hire and fire our Pastor. We have no governing board.

    We actually jsut went over this in Sunday school the last 2 Sundays.
  17. Well put guys.

    I take no issue with the religious beliefs of others, and all I ask is for them to respect my feelings on God and religion. I am not a member of a church or even a specific religion for that matter. mostly, this is because I have not found the right one for me as of this point. Do I believe in God? Yes. Do I pay to Him? . Yes, but it has never been for myself that I pray. I am happy and thankful for what I have, so I see no need to ask for more aside from guidance. Where I have always felt closest to Him is not I a church, but instead in the silence of the early morning woods as the new day awakens. It is through Him that I m there, and it is His will that will allow me to take game to feed my family.

    Like Rach, my objection to organized religion is in the higher structure. I get that there are rules and a moral code that is reinforced for some in church, and I fully get that the Bible is the word of God, with one Caveat. As with things on the internet (Which some seem to take as Gospel), I take it with a grain of salt. It is the word of God, but it was passed to the ear of Man, who then interpreted it prior to writing it down. Some things tend to get lost in translation is all I'm saying here. I am not trying to piss on the Bible or anyone's faith here.

    The higher ups will read that translated word, and some will take away from it or add to it to better suit there needs, or to better control their flock (Watch the Book of Eli for a prime example of this. This is why the head antagonist is trying to find a bible). Annulments were created by the Catholic Church to allow a Leader to still marry in the Church after a failed marriage, which can not be done after a divorce. Fast forward a few hundred years, and how much has been changed between man first receiving the WOG, and the New Testament? How many groups have read the Word, whether Muslim, "Christian", or a Nation's Leader, and then committed evil acts upon a populace? If you read the Old Testament, God himself order wholesale slaughters on more than one occasion. Or could it be that the Author wanted to use the "WOG" as a way of justifying what he or his King wanted done? It's worth thinking about IMHO.

    Point is, some bad $hit has been done in His name ( Be it Allah, God, or what ever name is chosen) by those who call themselves True Believers (ISIS, Al Kaeda, the KKK as just a few examples). People will go to war over their beliefs ( Watch Dogma with an open mind), but there are far fewer wars that were started over an idea. Absolute power corrupts absolutely, and this is what happens in the higher positions of a church sometimes. Not always. There are good men running the show in most cases. Just sometimes.

    the wonder of Amendment 1 is that we have the right to express ourselves freely, and to worship God in our own way. That is a wonderful and beautiful thing that we all can enjoy in our own way. If going to church makes you feel whole, do it and enjoy that closeness with the Lord. Go one step further, and give you time and energy to the community outreach programs they have, and help those less fortunate. Even if you don't have a religion, or just don't have a church, f you se someone in need, offer them a hand up. The person who gives of themselves, and never goes to a church is worth more than a thousand who go to church and pray, but will walk right past that starving homeless man with a will work for food sign and offer nothing, not even a cheap Micky D's hamburger.

    If you want to be closer to Our Lord, try being that person who acts more like Him. Share your blessings, and they shall be returned to you threefold. One act of kindness, no matter how small it may seem to you, can mean the world to someone who is in need. I will close with this.

    When I got my first deer, my dad and I kept up a tradition his dad started during the Great Depression. Once it had been processed, we donated a quarter of that meat to a family in need. We were living in Costal NC at the time, and we could harvest up to 5 deer per season. That year we both got 2 each, and kept 3/4 of the first one, and half of the next 3. The rest was given to families in need and a local homeless shelter. My wife, daughter, and I still do this now, and this year was the first time in the last 20 years that none of us filled a tag, only due to nor getting out to hunt this year while we recover financially after our move. Taking care of a friend in need, and sometimes several, has led to us being blessed. Bot in a bountiful harvest while afield, and in the strong bonds of Family with those we have helped and them helping us when we needed it as well.

    Thank you for reading this and giving it some time in your thoughts.

    *Kirk and the other Mods. If this is too much, please feel free to delete it.
  18. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

    Sounds similar to the type of church Kirk attends, and I do also.
    Autonomous Congregations. Not a wide-spread phenomenon,
    but catching on in the new(er) non-denominational movements.
  19. Just found this thread. I would go as far as to say Liberals are all gun grabbers.
    If they support a party, and the party line is involved in "gun grabbing", then by definition, they too are supporting said gun grabbing.

    There can be argument here about shades of gray in everything and that nothing is clear cut back and white. It's why it's so important that we research and become knowledgeable on things that affect our lives.

    When we vote for a candidate, it needs to be done with education on that persons voting record and personal history, NOT just what they espouse on the podium of the day. Great example of how all the libbys got duped with obummer. People that were paying attention were asking the right questions. "Who is this guy? What are his records? (NONE) What has he accomplished?"

    None of these questions were asked by the fools that voted him in. They only saw "hope and change". OF COURSE! We all want that and to move past this dark (seriously, no pun intended) time in our history. We have the worst economy ever. We all know that the government is involved in more scandal, cover-ups and lies than ever before. But people (his voter base) only saw what dribble was put in front of them.

    Society on the bigger part, has become lazy. Our educational system no longer teaches us HOW TO LEARN. They teach how to memorize and pass the test. I'm sad to say it was a conservative that introduced "no child left behind". Sounded pretty on the outside... led to the largest dummying down of America yet! I fear the worst has yet to be seen.
  20. Rachgier

    Rachgier Administrator Staff Member

    I understand that, and I agree to a point. My argument is that the blanket term "liberal" when applied ad hoc is a stereotype regardless of the full history of the term. That was my debate with Jason over on HPT. Here the issue was taken with my stance on organized religion, which I will admit, did require some clarification on my part because I did fall in to the trap of speaking in broad terms without enough explanation.