home protection old school and new

Discussion in 'General Hi-Point Discussion' started by sdbrit68, Sep 29, 2014.

  1. sdbrit68

    sdbrit68 Supporting Member

    Yep, our house can go new schools with the c9 in the ole ladys hands, the 12 guage in mine.

    But god forbid we have to take it old school, a 1844 cavalry officer foraging rifle.

    I would so love to fire it, just to see what it was like for those guys, the thing is almost as tall as me, the recoil I guess might be massive, like how the heck did they aim and hit anything ?

    Sorry, I am kinda a geek who loves to know the history of everything
     

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  2. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

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    As a gun guy, a military guy, and a history guy, I am confused.

    What is an 1844 cavalry officer foraging rifle?:confused:

    Is that a Springfield 69 caliber musket?
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2014

  3. Hermitt

    Hermitt Hey! Get Off My Lawn! Member

    The Cavalry sent the officers out to forage for food? :confused:
     
  4. planosteve

    planosteve Lifetime Supporter

    More likely it was for "sport" for the officers.
     
  5. 69 caliber? may as well be a mini cannon. all be it black powder has way less power than smokeless. I have never been left asking for more power than my .50 muzzel loader can provide.
     
  6. As to the 1844 rifle, here's a possible explanation: In the 18th century, forage caps were small cloth caps worn by British cavalrymen when undertaking work duties such as foraging for food for their horses. The term was later applied to undress caps worn by men of all branches and regiments as a substitute for the full dress headdress.[1] The kepi widely worn during the American Civil War is sometimes mistakenly referred to as a forage cap.[2]

    It sounds like under normal circumstances, feed for the horses was supplied in rolling wagons, but then again, what is 'normal' in wartime? The soldiers probably had to seek out forage and water for the horses, and water and food for the men.

    My home protection consists of a Mosin-Nagant rifle and a Hi-Point C9 pistol - I'm hoping to add a pump shotgun to the list in the future, maybe a used Mossberg or new Tri-Star (made in Turkey).
     
  7. FlashBang

    FlashBang I Stand With Talon Lifetime Supporter

    Looks a little to long to be a Cavalry carbine, they were much shorter to fit the scabbard and for better control while mounted.

    .
     
  8. sdbrit68

    sdbrit68 Supporting Member

    From my understanding, and what I could find on it, it was french made, unlike many of the "home made" stuff that showed up at the time.

    It was issued mostly to cavalry officers for smaller game. I assume, as I keep looking into it, there wasnt a ton of food for soldiers, and these were used to augment the food supply.

    Unfortunately, other than the name,there was no serial numbers or anything to trace it, my grandfather had it for 50 years, my dad for 20, and me for 2........but where my grandfather got it, who knows
     
  9. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    Where did you get the name from? Was it on some sort of semi-official documentation?

    I've found that sometimes historic documents use terms for items which, while likely understood at the time, weren't well documented themselves and are now confusing. Sometimes the actual meaning is lost to time.

    Here's an example. What is a "horse rifle pistol"??? It came up in a historic reference.

    "We called the southern District Police Station, where the arms taken from the premises of Clark are kept. They consist of a swivel, loaded half-way to the muzzle, one loaded musket, one empty musket, one double-barreled gun, several horse rifle pistols and four cavalry sabers." -The New York Times, September 16, 1856​

    I posted this question is multiple places, and even spoke to a curator for a historic society. No one was able to give me a definitive answer but there were lots of interesting guesses.

    So you may never get a solid answer. :)

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  10. The 1847 Walker was considered a horse pistol. It basically meant any pistol too cumbersome to carry unmounted, but had advantages carried on horseback. Usually carried in pommel holsters one on each side of the saddle.

    In the case of the Walker a guerrilla fighter might have two Walkers and a navy or army in a belt holster. Giving them 18 rounds in a fight, compared to just one with most rifles of the time.

    The term horse pistol was not limited to revolvers, such as the Harper's Ferry Horse pistol. Single shot 58 caliber.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2014
  11. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    Yes, that's "horse pistol." But what's a "horse rifle pistol"???

    See the difference. The NYT didn't call it a "horse pistol." They called it a "horse rifle pistol."

    Might be the same thing going on here with a "cavalry officer foraging rifle."

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  12. sdbrit68

    sdbrit68 Supporting Member

    the writing on the side is still in pretty god shape, it is hard to read the cursive, and its very flowery written with small and large letters

    Mre Rie de' Mutzig

    As I said, a touch hard to read in the flowery style, and I am by no means a gun historian, but I do love reading.Seems like during the war, European countries were dumping all their old stuff into the USA
     
  13. Hermitt

    Hermitt Hey! Get Off My Lawn! Member

    I'm thinking a Mare's Leg..... ;)

    [​IMG]
     
  14. FlashBang

    FlashBang I Stand With Talon Lifetime Supporter

    A Horse Rifle Pistol was a descriptive term, not a model, for a pistol that had a detachable stock.

    <edited because I am doing further research into this pistol>
     

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  15. FlashBang

    FlashBang I Stand With Talon Lifetime Supporter

    What you have there appears to be a French Musket Model 1842T Dragoon infantry musket manufactured in 1844.

    Looks to have been altered by removal of the bayonet mount lug and stock shortening. Should have had a longer stock with 3 barrel bands. They were common for the period. Should have some markings:

    Lock: MRE RLE/DE MUTZIG.
    Tang: MLE ( date of manufacture ).


    .
     
  16. sdbrit68

    sdbrit68 Supporting Member

    thanks, I just like having a piece of history
     
  17. I have one of those (without the detachable stock) that needs restoration, it's a 1855 Springfield Pistol Carbine. Interesting info on it here: http://musketoon.blogspot.com/2006/08/1855-pistol-carbine.html
     
  18. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    That possibility has been suggested several times but never confirmed. While it seems a logical possibility, I've never found much period documentation to support the thesis.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  19. FlashBang

    FlashBang I Stand With Talon Lifetime Supporter

    It is my opinion that what was described as a "Horse Rifle Pistol"; was in actuality the Harper's Ferry Horse Pistol issued for use by the U.S. Mounted Cavalry of that time.

    http://www.civilwarhandgun.com/harper.htm


    The news article you referenced:

    would tend to support this theory due to the time period and the listing of other items that were found. The items found were all of the type issued and carried by U.S. Cavalry. The assumption that the wrter used a descriptive term vs. an actual model/make would further be evidenced by the inclusion of "They consist of a swivel, loaded half-way to the muzzle". This appears to perhaps be a description of a 2" swivel gun common to the time period and also occasionally known to be taken along by Cavalry units on a small caisson. Further evidence of the use of descriptive verbiage and not actual type of weapon is supported by the writers use of "one double-barreled gun" instead of the more familiar term of 'shotgun' we know them as today.

    While only my opinion, I think the circumstantial evidence supporting my theory would stand the litmus test. ;):)

    .