How do we feel about pre-emptive travel ban?

Discussion in 'Lounge' started by ajole, Jan 27, 2015.

  1. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

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    The big storm is coming to the N.East, and it looks like several states are banning travel As of 9:00 PM, one report I listened to had some guy basically threatening people that drive, because he claims they are putting first responders at risk.

    While I get that BS argument, here's my question...what if the roads just don't get that bad? Yeah, I know...it's going to be bad. But still...

    My other issue is...there is no obligation for first responders to come get me. They can ALWAYS make the decision that the attempt isn't worth making.

    What about this idea...let me have my freedom, and just tell me, if I screw up, ain't no one coming to help?

    They didn't tell anyone not to go explore the west. No one said, hey, if you go into the prairie and get attacked by Indians, you're putting our soldiers at risk.

    Honestly...am I just wrong? It feels like the nanny state is just going further off the deep end every chance they get.

    If they can limit travel due to weather...what else can they use as an excuse?
     
  2. SWAGA

    SWAGA No longer broke... Lifetime Supporter

    The sheeple need to be protected against themselves for a lack of common sense and an absence of any survival skills.
     

  3. Rachgier

    Rachgier Administrator Staff Member

    It's a pre-emptive measure to reduce the likelihood of a MVC. The roads weren't even bad today and we had an 18-wheeler take out a snow plow this afternoon.

    Personally, I'm coming for you. It's my job. It's what I choose to do. I will do everything in my power, to make it to you until all of my options are exhausted. My job description is to deliver fire suppression and rescue crews and emergency medical assistance to the residents of not only my district, but the surrounding community.
     
  4. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

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    See, I know that, and I feel bad for the people that put themselves out there, trying to minimize but taking the risk anyway, because that's what's expected.

    I'm the same way, I'd try until there was no hope.

    But what if we said, hey...no one is going to risk their neck yet, this is too much, so if you choose to step out there, we'll come tomorrow...if we can.

    Wouldn't that be better than a flat out ban?

    I mean, there are places on the coast with "swim at your own risk" signs...why not do the same here?
     
  5. Bull

    Bull Just a Man Supporting Member


    And who gets to decide that?.... Therein lies the rub....
     
  6. Bull

    Bull Just a Man Supporting Member


    I don't have the option of opting out either.... My job is to be there fur my shift, no matter the weather.
     
  7. Rachgier

    Rachgier Administrator Staff Member

    While there is a massive gray area in all of this, we, as first responders, do have a legal obligation and duty to respond when called. I am employed by a fire protection district. We are our own entity within the Town that exists outside of the Village lines and inside the Town lines. Our budget is funded with tax-payer money, the tax-payers elect the Board of Commissioners who must reside within the district, entrust them to disperse the funds appropriately, and set the tax rates each year. We are not a contracted fire company that must submit an annual bid or contract each year. We can actually submit bids on areas outside of our little slice of heaven in an attempt to take over other fire company's district. I answer to the tax-payers as a public servant and district employee. If I stand up and say, "You're an idiot, and you're on your own," I get fired. (Again.)

    I actually brought a member of my department up on internal charges for dereliction of duty and conduct unbecoming during the 2011 floods, but because he abandoned his own family....I'll let that sink in for a moment....to respond to the station, the charges were dropped, and now he's since been promoted to Lieutenant.

    I actually spent 8 hours trapped in a trailer in rising flood waters up to my neck saving his daughter, son, son-in-law, and 4 y/o grandson while he sat at the fire station with his wife and dogs. If I had not disobeyed my Chief's direct order to fall back, he would have lost all but one of his children. He packed up his wife, their two dogs, and left everyone else behind. One daughter swam to safety, his son-in-law is a quadriplegic veteran and the other daughter and son refused to leave him behind. There are no words that can describe the level of rage I had inside me when I got back to the station and he had the stones to ask me, "What took you so long?"

    EDIT: Just be glad you don't live in Scituate, Mass. They just cut the power to some of their residents fearing storm driven waves would cause fires.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2015
  8. Liberty

    Liberty Shhh! Lifetime Supporter

    They are trying to prevent situations like Buffalo in 1977 and such. Basically if there are multiple feet of snow, ONE car gets stuck in one spot, traffic can't get by, then another, then it's complete gridlock and people start dying.

    Not saying it's ideal, but whenever we get 1/4" of rain, there's this one exit east of here where people die. In Southern California, there is one death for every 1/4" of rain on the freeway. The day we got 8 inches....

    People WILL be out and about thinking THEIR vehicle is impervious to spinning out and blocking the entire street. Government is supposed to be FOR the people after all. So in that limited sense, it does have common sense behind it. I'm not seeing massive deaths on the news. Now if DeBlasio and company get the states back to work in a day or two, then good.

    It's a coordinated effort to help people (and for them to look good politically). I'm FOR making sure the first responders and emergency & utility people are able to get through. Black Friday around here was bad on the freeway. I got stuck for 2 1/2 hours because no one would let the salt trucks through. I literally walked about a mile and a half up and made everyone drive to the side of the road so the salt trucks, ambulances and police cars could get through and clear wrecks, so I could get to work.

    People yelled at me, "We need to go to the bathroom, who's going to make that happen?" I pointed to the side of the road while they moaned. Seriously. Sometimes there's enough history to force people to not be idiots and wreck it for everyone else. There WILL be people who need to get to the hospital during this blizzard, and it's not fair to them to have a heart attack and have the roads clogged because some idiot is out thinking that THEIR car can now defy the laws of physics. Just sayin'.

    However, MOST of the time government is plain evil.
     
  9. tallbump

    tallbump Supporting Member

    Steve Reichert, former sniper, has been all over this on Facebook. I'm with him and Ajole....while we still have some semblance of freedom, how about you let me decide if it is safe for me to travel?
     
  10. Back2School

    Back2School Member

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    Man how times change. I remember in the 80s back up there when there was a storm like this, the call went out over the radio for anyone with a 4x4 to HELP get doctors and nurses TO the hospitals and such so they could do their magic. Help with the first responders if needed. People actually helping each other and not relying on the govt to save us - we saved them.

    One of the reasons I got my Jeep was so that I would be able to get myself out if I get stuck. I know its not perfect, but I am loaded with items simply to make sure I can get myself "unstuck". When the winch goes on in a few months, there is not much that I will not be able to get out of.

    And yes I know its the stopping thats the hard part, not the going...
     
  11. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

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    Man, I know that idea. This is Utah, our license plates talk about the greatest snow on earth...and first snowstorm every year, we have over 200 accidents in the city.
    People are stupid.


    Sure...but my solution is...no one needs to come through. You are on your own, man up, or deal with the results.

    There's a certain arrogance in the idea that the gov't can make it through, but "normal" folks can't, and we will penalize you for even trying.

    Wanna make things better? Don't ban travel, just penalize those who obstruct traffic. In a little while people will get the idea.

    Germany has this neat idea, if you slide off the road and tear up a fence, you get a ticket for traveling too fast for the conditions, no matter how fast you were going. That allows the farmer to bill your insurance to get his fence fixed.

    We have the same ability here, but no one uses it. Oh, you slid off the road because you were in a snowstorm? Gee, you poor thing, let's spend the money to rescue you, ban travel completely so no one else ever has the same problem, and let the farmer's insurance cover his fence.


    I like the history idea, the problem is, we are artificially removing the history, and trying to make laws that actually stop people from learning the hard way.

    I dislike that. It sucks for the individuals, but it's better for society to pay the price up front.

    This way, as we remove freedom, it sucks for the individual in a different way, and society learns nothing, and continues to be educated into even deeper sheeple status.


    Amen, brother.
     
  12. Liberty

    Liberty Shhh! Lifetime Supporter

    So apparently NYC got 4" of snow. Looks like they overreacted.

    The problem with letting everyone decide they will travel is that the stupid people all do it. I wish for the old days when they put out a call for people to help, and people had more sense. Then again, the winter of 1977 shows stupid people will do stupid things, even when MOST have the sense not to.

    The problem is we just can't shoot stupid people on sight.
     
  13. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    I have the same memory from the Blizzard of '78.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  14. Fracman

    Fracman Member

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    I find it cute that they name their storms here in North Dakota we just call it January, February, or my favorite March.
     
  15. MaryB

    MaryB Supporting Member

    After the winter of 96/97 in SW Minnesota when they had to use a tracked personnel carrier from the national guard to rescue people off the highways they put up gates and signs. Travel around them and get stuck you not only get a huge fine but they will not come and get you until the storm settles down. Only exception is if someone is hurt. Then they run out the tracked carrier that MN Hwy Patrol purchased for rescues.

    That same winter I rescued over a dozen idiots who tried to drive that road in a storm without 4wd. Usually on my way home from work early because I knew roads were going to be closed and plows pulled off. I spent the bulk of that winter in 4 low lock on my GMC Jimmy and a top speed of 35mph. Road was one lane in many spots with the drift cut 10+ feet on both sides.

    So I can see closing roads once the storm starts and they know it will get dangerous. To many idiots without survival gear(mine stays in the truck year round) who will think they can buck 2 foot drifts and get buried. Or a semi driver who thinks he can make it and then jackknifes blocking the road for everyone including emergency services vehicles... I dodged the back end of one in process of going sideways across the road. I stopped, picked up the driver, called in on my ham gear that the road was blocked and they needed to close it. Dropped the driver at the town 7 miles south of me to wait for a bulldozer to tow him out and bucked drifts the rest of the way home. I do miss that beat up old Jimmy because it went through a lot of snow!
     
  16. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

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    See, I can get behind that.

    Though I'm not sure I'd roll out even if they are hurt, if they drove around the gates.

    Back in that same 96/97 winter, I drove home from SLC, over two 9000 ft passes, in a blizzard...in an '85 Ford station wagon.
    There were about 8 of us in line winding reflector to reflector across the freeway at about 30 mph, and as we were swung to the right side, some guy in a jacked up truck blew by, honking the horn like an idiot.

    As we all swung to the left side, he kept passing, and ended up driving himself out to the left side, into the median, which out here is just a 20-40 foot wide strip of dirt and sagebrush about 3-4 feet lower than the road. And there he got stuck in about 6 feet of snow. And no one slowed down to check on him. Of course, he was only 400 yards from some houses, so it wasn't like he was stranded in the wilderness.:rolleyes:

    But on the drive home, I was a LONG way from help.