[stonebridge]

***This is a lengthy post. I would ask you to please read all of it as this is something I believe is vital to us all. I thank you, -'bridge***

I like instructions. I don't necessarily pay attention to them, but I like having them just in case. This is especially true when I work out, I like to have charts and diagrams telling me "if you do thus-and-so this many times for this long, you will see results here, here, and here." I like to have a plan for success and measurable results.

What I would like your input on is developing a list of shooting drills and goals to achieve to build a SHTF firearms skill set.

The end result will be for a novice shooter to be able to print out (for free) lesson plans and targets and follow the instructions to guide them through drills of increasing difficulty until, upon completing all the lessons, they are competent marksmen and women, ready to respond to whatever 'S' hits their 'F'.

First, I'd like help in identifying the varying types of survival firearms use. I'm thinking:

Survival Poaching/Hunting

Personal/Home Defense (Urban)

Personal/Home Defense (Rural)

Group Defense and/or Defense while transitioning/traveling

Defense in and around motor vehicles

Sniping

Once we've identified and separated the various types of skill sets needed to be truly prepared to face a SHTF/Survival situation, I'd like your input in developing drills or scenarios to practice in order to become proficient in each skill set. The drills would ideally have increasing levels of difficulty: restrictions in time allowed, number of rounds allowed, or increased precision e.g. Also, the drills would ideally involve only the most basic of set-ups and equipment, no fancy shot-timers, race guns, or huge amounts of ammunition and should be able to be accomplished without needing assistance from other individuals.

Normally, these types of drills are designed around a particular type of firearm (shotgun, rifle, revolver, &c.). In this case, I think that would be tailoring the problem to fit the solution.

Instead, I'd like to develop drills that we agree a person needs to be able to accomplish. If an individual finds that they cannot fill that requirement with their current equipment, it should reveal to them that perhaps it's time to rethink their gear. And isn't that what SHTF prep is all about? Finding weaknesses and seeking ways to correct them? Otherwise, we're left to hope that whatever disaster we run into is one that fits nicely into the capabilities of the tools we have.

Finally, I know there are plenty of drills we could borrow from IDPA, SASS, IPSC, &c. I currently own the lessons and targets for an excellent rifle skill-building course. Instead of just copy-pasting these, I'd like us to discuss what's really needed to feel adequate in a SHTF situation and then build our course around that. The differentiations (Survival Hunting, Personal Defense, Sniping &c.) between skill-sets would allow individuals to pick which lesson plans to follow first depending on what they feel is most important to where and how they live.

I believe that this would be a real benefit to both novice shooters and experienced shooters alike. It will allow us to systematically sharpen our shooting skills and measure our improvement rather than just punching holes in paper.

I thank you sincerely for your consideration and help.

-Stonebridge

 

[gidge]

i think that this a good idea but i feel that i have little to ad
on the hunting,i belive that small game would be a better choice in a shtf situation
practice for squrill hunting could be shooting walnuts out of the tops of walnut trees,offhand
golf balls are fun too.

i think that this a great idea and i am very interested

 

[perotter]

What I would like your input on is developing a list of shooting drills and goals to achieve to build a SHTF firearms skill set.

First, I'd like help in identifying the varying types of survival firearms use. I'm thinking:

Survival Poaching/Hunting

Personal/Home Defense (Urban)

Personal/Home Defense (Rural)

Group Defense and/or Defense while transitioning/traveling

Defense in and around motor vehicles



Finally, I know there are plenty of drills we could borrow from IDPA, SASS, IPSC, &c. I currently own the lessons and targets for an excellent rifle skill-building course. Instead of just copy-pasting these, I'd like us to discuss what's really needed to feel adequate in a SHTF situation and then build our course around that. The differentiations (Survival Hunting, Personal Defense, Sniping &c.) between skill-sets would allow individuals to pick which lesson plans to follow first depending on what they feel is most important to where and how they live.

Hunting on an ongoing basis = trap gun. Let the gun do the work while you do what a gun can't. This isn't for sport.

Home defense(urban or rural) & the rest = real firepower. I favor 3-4 inch recoiless for this. The .50 bmg M2 might work. Of course, the standard small arms in case the situation gets out of hand.

Sniping = .300 Whisper - AR15.

For training with guns regular small arms, I'd say 1st just practice snap shooting & off hand. Many people have the bad habit of trying to hold the gun still when they shoot.

 

[gidge]

[/quote]

Home defense(urban or rural) & the rest = real firepower. I favor 3-4 inch recoiless for this. The .50 bmg M2 might work. Of course, the standard small arms in case the situation gets out of hand.

Sniping = .300 Whisper - AR15.

[/quote]

???????????? :brow:

i have had a few egg shoots--clays set up at diffrent ranges-pop em with a .22
might work for hd practice

 

[perotter]

i have had a few egg shoots--clays set up at diffrent ranges-pop em with a .22
might work for hd practice

You bring up something that is sometimes overlooked. Learning how to know(or estimate) range kwikly.

That is something that is inexpensive to train for. Don't even have to shoot to begin with.

 

[Silicon Wolverine]

drills i practice regulalrly in my self defense practice

advancing while firing on single and multiple targets
retreating while firing on single and multiple targets
side to side movement while firing on single and multiple targets
firing from behind barricades/cover
reloading while moving
all types of malfunction drills
switching from primary rifle to handgun and/or back
firing with primary handgun in strong hand B/U in weak hand at seperate targets
firing from prone, kneeling, combat crouched, and other body positions
firing with weak hand (wounded drills)
relaoding/malfunction drills one handed (wounded drills)

pick up tactical pistol shooting by erik lawrence for combat handgunnery drills and instructons, DVD tactical carbine training for rifle drills, and some sort of general combat training manual (i prefer military training manuals like soldiers basic handbook of combat skills etc). really its about going out and dedcating time to training. when the SHTF you will fall back to the basest level of training you have. muslce memory will take over for you when you brain cant keep up. go out and shoot shoot shoot, train train train. train it until you can do it without thinking about it.

SW

 

[Branth]

I don't remember where I heard this, but a good way to train for clearing malfunctions is to have someone else load your mag, and intermittently put an empty piece of brass in with the live rounds - It'll cause a jam or malfunction of some sort, so you can practice tap-rack-bang when you can't see it coming.

 

[Silicon Wolverine]

i use the plastic swedish training rounds so it goes bang but doesnt cycle like a squib/bad round would.

SW

 

[SR33 practical tactical]

I always include snap caps in my range drills.

 

[Rhodes]

First learn to shoot properly with instructors. Unless you have an instructor watching you shoot you have no way of knowing if you have picked up bad habits.

Next dry fire drills can cover just about anything that relies on muscle memory even shooting. Clearing, field striping, reloading, target acquisition, etc

Paint ball or other shooting team "games" are excellent skill builders if you do them right. Even laser tag is just basically a house clearing simulation and lets face it fun. Its cheaper to do this than send a lot of ammo down range just to hear the bang. Forming a team with others of like mind are invaluable. Dont over look airsoft as some kiddie sport for the tacticools, its a team building sport and the tactics are exactly the same as combat.

Long range shooting can be a problem since its completely land dependent unless you have the cash for a proper school. Some excellent books at the very least to create scenarios would help. There are some decent software simulations that at least teach proper use of the scope and range adjustments, cheaper than driving four hours to a good range. If you do take some friends and make it a team building exercise so you have someone to compete against.

Last but not least get to know like minded people NOW. I will leave the obvious reason for this unsaid...

 

[godlessdustin]

I forgot we have a place in town for lazer tag, I know where Im going this weekend now.

 

[adherna]

The owner of the company where I work trained snipers in the marines. Lets just say I have had my share of training.

 

[Silicon Wolverine]

i dissaprove of paintball/laser tag as they dehumanize violence by taking away the death factor. i have had people come to the range and ask me to stop my shooting drills because it bothers them to see me shooting paladin targets with picture sof human faces wearing ball caps and t shirts. personally i think its none of thier buisness but i do it to be polite. i make them as realistic as possible, and seeing bullet holes appear in faces and clothing can change your shooting markedly. i know people who can shoot targets all day long, add a ball cap and t shirt and they start jerking the trigger, missing and just go all to hell because thier mind makes the connection with a live person, not just a cardboard target. we have all been taught from an early age (or our earliest introduction to guns) to NEVER EVER point them at a person nor intentionally shoot at a person.

YOU HAVE TO UNDO THAT INSTINCT!

that moment of hesitation that a real person over the sights brings can cost you your life in teh real world. which brings us back to my original post. Shoot shoot shoot, train train train. as the rouge warrior says: "the more thou sweateth in training, the less thou shall bleedeth in combat".

SW

 

[mikana]

I would also suggest a component be ammo conservation. Making every shot count could be vital in the shtf senario.

In addition, I would encompass family drills with reloading and team tactics.

Long range on human targets (400-600 yards), closer=more/smaller and shorter times.

In addition, there should be a woodcraft/patience component.

 

[Rhodes]

In this context the CQB games are a training exercise. There isn't much else readily available but these exist nation wide, mostly inexpensive, and some are pretty good simulations. Even the military uses them. I dont see them as desensitizing as much as the electronic games that are just gruesome entertainment. Its far too late to worry about sensibilities of those that choose to be sheepish but I commend you on politeness.

 

[SR33 practical tactical]

I'm a NRA pistol instructor, USN seabee, and work at a ammo plant. Still while working part time at Dick's I had a hard time selling airsoft equipment.
We train and we fight. Kids are just set loose with friends and allowed to shoot each other with no instruction nor grasp of what would happen if the air soft was a real gun.
Dry fire is a good drill for trigger controle and proper position, but must have recoil and as it has been said some thing other than a dot on paper over the sights added at some point.

 

[Rhodes]

Dryfire is good for much more as we were forced to learn by the recent ammo shortage. One example;

Absence of recoil is exactly what makes dry fire so valuable. One of our biggest problems teaching people is getting over shoulder flinch from the rifles recoil, it is a natural reaction by the mind to press the shoulder into the expected recoil. To break this habit the shot must become a surprise to the mind thus recoil free dry fire. Eventually flinch becomes less of a problem but will always remain and so will the drills.

I dont claim that most people using paintball and such are learning anything from it. Only that they could if done properly. The same applies to any activity done without proper attitude and goals, even the most expensive paid instruction requires this. As for not understanding the consequences and realities of combat I dont think that has ever been solved by any program, it is simply impossible until acutual combat is experienced. That is why veteran troops react so much better than green ones in battle obviously.

 

[mikana]

Dryfire is good for much more as we were forced to learn by the recent ammo shortage. One example;

Absence of recoil is exactly what makes dry fire so valuable. One of our biggest problems teaching people is getting over shoulder flinch from the rifles recoil, it is a natural reaction by the mind to press the shoulder into the expected recoil. To break this habit the shot must become a surprise to the mind thus recoil free dry fire. Eventually flinch becomes less of a problem but will always remain and so will the drills.

I dont claim that most people using paintball and such are learning anything from it. Only that they could if done properly. The same applies to any activity done without proper attitude and goals, even the most expensive paid instruction requires this. As for not understanding the consequences and realities of combat I dont think that has ever been solved by any program, it is simply impossible until acutual combat is experienced. That is why veteran troops react so much better than green ones in battle obviously.

One of the most valuable lessons I learned early on came from setting a penny on my reciever and dry firing. REally highlights flinches!

 

[Rhodes]

That is an excellent idea, thanks.