HP's overall design???

Discussion in 'Vintage Topic Archive (Sept - 2009)' started by squeak_D, Jan 30, 2008.

  1. squeak_D

    squeak_D Guest

    I was looking at my HP pistols today and it got me thinking. Does the HP design have to be what it is currently? The HP-380 is the largest one I've ever owned and shot.

    Could HP actually shave a bit off the massive size of the slides used on their models? Do they have to be so tall and boxy? Would they actually save a little more money if the slide itself didn't have to be so big, or is the slide size exactly where it's supposed to be given the guns overal mechanics and size requirements of components due to functionality?

    One of the biggest complaints I've seen regarding HP's is the size of the weapon. I just wonder if more can be done to lessen the overall size. I can't imagine it costing HP more money to produce smaller and lighter firearms. They'd be saving $ as less material would be used.

    Anyone play around with HP's design, and ever really look into other design alternatives?
  2. I would imagine that if they could shave more metal off of the slides they would, as that would be more profit in their pockets.

    But they have to be beefy enough to take the cartridge pressures, and also to recoil like they are supposed to do so the weapon is safe and dependable.

  3. squeak_D

    squeak_D Guest

    I wonder if just rounding off the top of the slide more would change the HP's performance. Not taking a huge amount off, but just rounding it off just a tad.
  4. As waltham said, weight has to be there for it to absorb recoil forces and the firearm to cycle properly.

    Rounding edges and stuff like that takes either a new mold or post molding rework... which cost money and increases scrap.
  5. squeak_D

    squeak_D Guest

    Can always dream though :)
  6. Joe Sixpack

    Joe Sixpack Guest

    if you're looking for something smaller and lighter look into a bersa thunder .380.

    can be had for about 200-250 nib
  7. Kyu

    Kyu Senior Member Member

    So now you go the geek in me interested. I'll try to find time to pull the slide of my CF380, weigh it, and see if I can do the calculation about how much (if any) mass can be shaved off. Should be pretty easy to figure out.

  8. Thayldt21

    Thayldt21 Senior Member Member

    I would also suggest having a C-9 weighed and figure from there. A math guy would be better of at this than me But I think porptionate size to the muzzle energy and what have you.

    I know What I am trying to say I hope you guys do to. LOL :)
  9. Kyu

    Kyu Senior Member Member

    I got ya exactly. If I had a C9, I would use it, but I have a 380. Anyway, I assume they keep the same general tolerance for all their castings so things should scale.
  10. Thayldt21

    Thayldt21 Senior Member Member

    Uh I believe the C-9 is the same weight But I was saying to make sure.

    Then do a bullit deminsion devided by the slide weight type thing. Say the slide is 1 pound divided by 900 muzzle energy for .380

    then 1 pound devided by say 1200muzzle energy for the 9mm.

    then you could factor the weight reduction for the .380 over that of the 9mm.

    Like I said explaining my thinking is difficult. and understanding it must be impossible.
  11. Kyu

    Kyu Senior Member Member

    I see what you're saying. It may very well be that the slide is the same for the CF380 and the C9 with just a different barrel. In fact, if the weight is right, there would be no reason not to do that. It will be interesting to see if the slide is "too heavy" for a 380 round and just right for a 9mm. hmmm... Damn! Now I need to by the 9mm, 40 s&w and 45 ACP just in the name of science!!! then onto the carbines...
  12. neothespian

    neothespian Member

    I honestly wouldn't try to shave any more material off the C9/380. As a company, I can understand overbuilding in order to hedge mechanical failure, but with those energy displacements going on underneath that zinc slide, I'd be wary of compromising the outer structure of the slide.

    The Carbine on the other hand is already pretty damned light! Removing weight off that weapon would almost make it unmanageable under fire.
  13. Kyu

    Kyu Senior Member Member

    So the general rule in engineering it to overbuild by 20%. With something like a firearm I would not be surprised if it were more like 25-30%.
  14. HiPoint firearms are straight blowback guns and the slides are a zinc alloy. The ONLY way to reduce the slide size on the .380 would be to make it out of steel. Not sure the 9, .40 and .45 would be feasible with a steel slide and straight blow back method of operation unless they had some really strong recoil springs.

    I would love to see a smaller HiPoint .380, this would put it closer in size to a Bersa Thunder 380 or Walther PPK and would probably boost sales considerably. As for the C9, I am very pleased with it as is.
  15. Joe Sixpack

    Joe Sixpack Guest

    looking at the .380 and c9 they looked the same to me except the .380 had a polished streak or something on the slide..

    i just assumed they was the same frame/slide and such..

    anyone ever thought maybe they're the same slide? it might make sense even if it's a hair more material then they require it might have cost more in the long run to cast a separate slide for the .380 and the c9
  16. The CF380 and C9 are identical in every way EXCEPT for the slide weights. The alloy composition for the CF380 and C9 are different to make the CF380 slide a few ounces lighter than the C9 slide. The silver streak is not only for looks it allows for easy identification of the lighter CF380 slide from the heavier C9 slide.
  17. Ari

    Ari Guest

    NO mater what you do you are not going to take enough off to make an over change in the true shape of the weapon. But you might take enough off to make the thing not safe to shoot. I would not mess with this! The weight that is there in the slide keeps the chamber closed long enough for pressures to drop to safe levels before the thing opens. (over a wide range of ammo) Love the girl for who she is.. Is she sleek and sexy? Nope but that is ok. If you need sleek and sexy step up and buy sleek and sexy. This is not the gun for everyone.

    I also hear of folks trying mods and then they dont work and then they are all like "That is ok Hi-Point will fix it for me" That is not fair the design works for what it was designed to do. Dont mess with it and then make them pay for your messing around.
  18. Joe Sixpack

    Joe Sixpack Guest

    tell that to the people buying ragged out guns cheaply to send back for a new one.
  19. Joe,

    Beemiller encourages people to send in a used gun so they can check it out and update it with all the latest changes. This way they send it back to you knowing that their product is safe for you to shoot. Big difference in buying a used firearm that needs to be updated or repaired than it is when the user screws it up and expects Beemiller to fix it.
  20. Thayldt21

    Thayldt21 Senior Member Member

    I wonder if they would be willing to sell a slide for one to tinker with.

    I agree with leaving it alone but then this is were the inovation and mods come from.

    I'd be interested in grindin some off then using my welder to weld a bead from front to back then smooth it down.

    Giving it a less brick like look.

    Yes this is just blowing wind out my arse but still a novel thought.