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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
First post for me.

I own 3 hi-points. a 9mm pistol, a .40 s&w pistol and a 995 carbine.
Love em! Top to bottom love em.
I really want a new 4095 with the new stock.

So here is the hypothetical.

New owners of Hi-point right? I couldn't find anything about the sale, but it's a private company so it's not surprising.

Potential for a new Assault Weapons Ban. Hi-Point carbines could be shoveled into that group though it's a great stretch to see how.

Under the previous Assault Weapons Ban, there were no restrictions on existing inventory. Meaning a firearm that was already built, could sit in a warehouse and just go up in value for the original manufacturer. No new guns being produced, and the more being sold, means that your stored inventory is going up in value every day.

What are the chances that Hi-point is just cranking these things out, but sitting on them on purpose waiting to see if the AWB is really going to happen.
As a business person, if the chances of a new AWB going through with my product on the list were higher than 50%, I wouldn't put a single unit out the door. I would just make them as fast as I could, and not even assemble them. Just build the stamped serial receivers. Turn every machine I had toward the task of cranking out those receiver serial numbers that could possibly turn into a limited supply item and then just sit on them.

With several instances of "retooling" and "backordered" stock that I have heard from my local gun dealers and on the intar-tubes, I am starting to think that the company may be doing just that. I haven't found a Hi-point carbine 995 in stock anywhere in the tri state area of kentucky ohio indiana within 250 miles of me. I haven't seen a Hi-point 4095 for sale ANYWHERE in the last 6 months. Not on the web gun stores and not even at the bill good man shows around here.

Now the real question is, can we blame them or be angry that they don't want to take our $300.00 now, but want to wait and charge $500.00 or even $700.00 after the AWB.
Cause even right now Hi-points are the most cost efficient firearms on the market. A USC .45 is $1500.00 minimum. Mp5-clones are running 2 grand and up. It wouldn't be unreasonable for Hi-Point to be charging Half what the other manufacturers charge for something that is nearly as good and is still fun and reliable.

Just a hypothetical. Not trying to imply they are evil or conspiracy-esque. But, I think given the state of things, I'd sure as hell do it if I were them.
 

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Wow! That is a very interesting (and very possible) scenario.
:welcome:
 

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my dealer called hi point the other day and right now they are making pistols.. guess they only have one production line so they switch back and forth between pistol and the carbines.. hell everywhere I go there's pistols.. I wish they would get off there butt's and send some rifles out..
 

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I have two problems with your theory. First, I bought my first Hi Point firearm on Sunday, a 995 Carbine from the Redmond, OR Big R store. They had two when I bought it, I went back on Tuesday and the other one was gone too. The other problem I see with your theory is that it costs money to store things. There is the initial investment in materials to manufacture the item and the cost of manufacture. Then it costs money for the storage location, the rent/investment in the property, the monthly electricity bill or other environmental control costs, the security bill (would you really leave a warehouse of firearms trusted to electronic only security measures?), the taxes on the property if you own it. Most good business models have a hard time justifying investments like that for "Possibly" double profits years from now. They'll take half (actually standard) profits now and make other plans for the future.
 

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companies that produce things sell them. part of the getting capital to produce more things and make money. with demand at an all time high and all the manufacturers running at full speed to meet demand, i really doubt anyone is holding back.

that's why limited edition cars are sold and not stockpiled by the dealer.
 

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Yeah I sort of have to agree manufactures turn profit on manufacturing and selling goods, not warehousing them, its why most ammo is short right now, no warehoused goods to meet sudden demand. If they really are changing the design of the carbines then yes they do have to "retool" no conspiracy just fact, so they are cranking out pistols to meet demand. You don't sit on product when 3 people are screaming for the same item on the chance of future profit. The arms industry didn't cause this hysterical demand but you can bet no one is holding things back ,they're making and selling.
 

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Well I just got of the phone with Shirley and she laughed in her endearing rough voiced manner at your hypothetical conspiracy's. ;-)
The demand for everything gun related these days out weighs production ability's of most company's. Hence the hard to find items.

She has no idea why someone would think HP would ever sell such a succesful family company unless the last remaining owner had died. ;-)
She also told me the new stock should be out "real soon" and the 4595 will be right behind it. ;-)
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
OH that's neat. You just call em whenever you want?

I wasn't implying that this was actually happening. Just like I said, hypothetical.
When ideas like that hit me I can't help but mull them over for awhile.
 

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OH that's neat. You just call em whenever you want?
Well yeah....don't you? That's the cool thing about HP, you can talk to the owners. Try that with a Kimber or a Springfield, or any other gun company.

I wasn't implying that this was actually happening. Just like I said, hypothetical.
Actually, the way I read your post was that the storage of guns was a hypothesis, you sounded like you knew something about a sale, but couldn't find proof...don't know why you'd even LOOK for proof if you were just hypothesizing....
sounds like a load of BS to me.
Not bad for a first post...
 

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Small company and local to my state that's what i find appealing. Even if they get a bad rap for handguns...

I was under the impression they had given up the reinstating of the AWB, I finally took the time and googled the hell out of it and found it to be completely absurd how they were classifying assault weapons...

But at this point it looks pretty grim for the reinstatement of that idiocy of modern politics...

Can't wait to see the new stock though, but i doubt ill be lining up to pay for it at mid-ban prices...
 

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OH that's neat. You just call em whenever you want?

I wasn't implying that this was actually happening. Just like I said, hypothetical.
When ideas like that hit me I can't help but mull them over for awhile.
Actually, yes I do! And so can anyone else! That's just one of the benefits of HP's customer service! ;-)
And your post is the reason I called her. IMO it was a bit careless post that could cause rumor mills to start running. As ajole eluded too, you made it sound like your "search for info about a sale of the company" was more than just a hypothesis. And just like the rumor mills run rampent with gun snobs about Hi Points quality and reliability, all it takes is for someone to take what you said and bring it up in conversation somewhere else and suddenly it turns into some kind of fact down the line.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Actually, the way I read your post was
As long you are understanding the significance of your own interpretation. That's a plus. I can write it. And you can read it. But what you get out of what I wrote is often times 80% what you choose and 20% what I intended.

don't know why you'd even LOOK for proof if you were just hypothesizing....
sounds like a load of BS to me.
I look because it doesn't hurt anything to dig. Even for my own amusement. I was under the impression, from a thread I thought I had read in these forums, that the company had recently traded hands. I remember a thread talking about retooling based on the "new owners". I read from that that the new owners of the company were changing plans and that was causing the bottleneck. But like I said, it's hard to find information for a private company sale, and I didn't find anything that hinted at it being sold. That's why I mentioned it.
Even searching through the forums in a seperate tab now, I don't get any results with relevance higher than 47% so it is likely that I mis-read the intent of a sentence that was talking about "new owners" as new Hi-point product owners, and not new hi-point company owners.

I disagree with many of the ideas that storage is expensive and stocking up is not economical. That's just "assumed". I've found industrial storage and light manufacturing space to be incredibly cheap in Southern Ohio/Northern Kentucky. So cheap in fact I was considering buying an old warehouse in cincinnati that was 10000sf for under $80k. With the wall and the back half of the building being built into a hillside, it could have been a 50 yard indoor range, or a paintball arena using the RAP4 gear. All kinds of ideas for big space like that.
But those aren't things worth continuing to discuss.

I don't think much of this is either. I thought I made it pretty clear that my post was just a "talk it up" deal.

Not sure how it could come across as BS though. There would be some need or benefit to "tricking" people into believing something.
Saying "Hey what about this" is generally outside the realm of BS right?

IMO it was a bit careless post that could cause rumor mills to start running.
Well I'd disagree with that as well. Anything you discuss can be used as fodder for rumor mills if you want to frame it that way. There are also good rumor mills! Called positive word of mouth. And another upside to rumors is that invariably someone will overreact and call to say, "Guess what I heard" and then the rumor gets dispelled. That's a positive flow of correct information lol.
With as many people who post that they "just spoke to Shirley" in these forums I wonder if she is able to accomplish any other tasks in a week! :D

As ajole eluded too,
Just to be pedantic, I don't think eluded is the word you wanted. Alluded would have been the more appropriate word which would normally apply to indirect references in which the source is not specifically identified. Since you mentioned Ajole, you were making a direct reference, in which case, you would want to just reiterate with the reference source directly ie; "As Ajole ponted out".

Please note that my current state of mind while writing this is cordial, convivial, and lightly entertained.

I think there is a level of defense of something that needed no defense at all! Right?
I don't remember seeing anything in the posting policy that disallowed speculative conversation. I could have missed it though.
 

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I disagree with many of the ideas that storage is expensive and stocking up is not economical. That's just "assumed". I've found industrial storage and light manufacturing space to be incredibly cheap in Southern Ohio/Northern Kentucky. So cheap in fact I was considering buying an old warehouse in cincinnati that was 10000sf for under $80k. With the wall and the back half of the building being built into a hillside, it could have been a 50 yard indoor range, or a paintball arena using the RAP4 gear. All kinds of ideas for big space like that.
But those aren't things worth continuing to discuss.
Well I'll discuss it just a bit further because I was talking about manufactures making money, sure you can get an old empty warehouse cheap, but you aren't saying that you're going to start building weapons and stuff them in there until you think "the price is right" you're talking about turning it into a facility to charge people to use it, thats vastly different. I never said storage was expensive I said its impractical for manufacturing, I mean of course even Hi-point has a short term warehouse, most manufacturers do. But lets take your therory of buying that old warehouse cause you're going to build and store. Firstly you have to buy the warehouse, then you have to build it out to your specs for your operation..oh yes and don't forget heat, lights etc. Then you have to employ workers to stock and inventory the warehouse and probably security and maybe fencing and gates etc. Ok now you're ready to stuff it with all your firearms until the market is where you want it. Now don't forget you have to pay your suppliers for all the metal and polymer etc you made those guns with and you have to pay your employess and cover warrantee work and the myriad of other things you have to pay on a monthly basis, advertising etc. Where oh where will you get the money? Thats right you sell the things ..guns in this case ..that you made from the material you owe on. Whats that ? you aren't going to pay because you're warehousing until you get a better sale price? Ok suppliers A,B and C have just frozen your account and will ship no raw materials until they are paid. Looks like warehousing wasn't such an "economical" idea after all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
HiPoint45, I understand your point of view on this, but in my opinion there is a great deal of information you aren't taking into consideration or may not know about in general.

In modern manufacturing, very few companies run on the results of the actual sales. Turn around time, legal obligations, and in many cases government oversight mean that from the time you produce your "widget" to the time you get the money from selling the "widget" even in the very RARE case that the distributor pays you directly for your immediately shipped inventory, that immediate payment is still likely to take 6-8 weeks.

In most cases that I have encountered once you have the ability and proof that you can make the "widget" you get a loan for the estimated sales figures for the production run based on pre-sales and commitment notifications from distributors and retailers. These loans are very short term low interest loans used as capital generation funds. They run all your stuff. You make the widgets, you pass them along, cuts are made to and fro from stores and short sells and sales and discounters. You will get some money trickeling in but it takes nearly the whole year to get back the money for the sales you made through the first half of the year. When the loan term starts to roll around you deduct what you made that is owed on the loan for the same period of time you are getting sales returns and you roll that over into a new loan proving that you can repay it based on the immediate return.
The actual owners or shareholders of the company do get immediate monetary returns though. They take the profit off the operating return and funnel that directly into their bank accounts while paycheck monies and operating costs are rolled along in the continual credit process.

That's part of the reason that there is such a serious problem in the economy right now. Medium and even large businesses are having problems when the return is slightly less than expected, so the roll over loan doesn't cover the potential for loss for over estimating production runs when people stop spending money. So you produce less, your stuff gets discounted and after a couple quarters of this your creditors see that your incoming will not cover what you owe and your outgoing doesn't potentially make up the difference.
In worst case scenario, which I have personally witnessed 4 times this year, the company owners simply cash out the operating costs, divert the immediate trickle flow of sales returns directly to their accounts and default the company and close up shop. The creditors then get to sell off the remaining stock and company assets to cover the debt and they write off the rest as a loss.


In many cases, banks and other financial institutions will write big short term loans with a set percentage overhead return on a gurantee that a certain percentage increase is "reasonable". It happens all the time in government contracts.
The government hasn't released the money that is supposed to pay a company to finish this project, so an insurance or title company not even a bank in alot of cases, cuts out a huge amount of cash, enough to float the projects payroll and expenses, until the government check rolls in.
Now the contractor, proving that they will get the money eventually cause the work is getting done (theoretically) takes this loan and gurantees a 5% return in less than 6 months. Now they go back to the government and say Look, your slow processes caused us to take another 5% overhead to keep funding the project, so you have to kick in another 5% or you will be in default of the contract terms guranteeing us our 20% or higher profitability for doing government work.
So the government takes money from some other project to pay this, and the short on that project holds up the cash, and this process is played out for the now shorted project.

In situations like this, where you can reasonably gurantee a certain percentage increase, many financial institutions will create a new short term economic "vehicle" to transfer or float money based on this short term gurantee.
It is not unreasonable to consider an arms manufacturer getting fronted for a situation where a potential boon market increase can be just around the corner if you think the corners are all 2-3 year turn arounds. The corner can be next week or the next decade, depending on the outlook of the investor or the financial tool that is used to look for that corner.


And also don't ignore that there are several investigations into the ammunition manufacturing industry right now for intentionally increasing the perception of an ammunition shortage by shortselling old stock only to businesses who agree not to sell it or show it on their salable inventory for 1-2+years. That is essentially the same idea we are talkng about here. These companies are buying the old-new stock, warehouse stock, at a discount, on the agreement they won't sell it or list it, until the manufacturers have met current demand with NEW poduction. This artificially maintains high demand pricing, and even when the prices drop off, those who purchased under the no sell no list agreements got enough of a discount to make it nearly as profitable AFTER prices fall again due to increased production meeting artificially inflated demand.

It's the same way that Debeers, and other gem companies and even some precious metal mining companies work. As long as they don't have to disclose how much inventory they hold, they can tell the market whatever they want about availability and they then control the rate at which production maintains pace with demand to maximize profitability.

And your point below is making the assumption that they are building completely new facilities and staffing them internally and so on.
In a case like this there are plenty of facilities available within 500 miles that make trucking and storing pretty reasonable I would guess even if that storage had to be done with higher than average security, but I don't think heavily boarded crates of guns would require any more security than heavily boarded crates of DvD players.
Warehouses aren't as much the target of larcenies as houses and stores and cars are. Warehouses don't display their goods, they look big and hard to get into. I can tell you from experience you would be shocked what gets shipped across this country in simple 18 wheel trucks with no guards or chase vehicles. Just a bonded driver, who often times unhooks his load in a parking area outside the delivery facility, and leaves it their after turning in a delivery slip and getting it signed by a single modestly paid inventory guy.

I attribute your point of view to "movie complex" where you kind of know something is important so you assume that there is a level of care taken for the level of importance of the "thing".
Reality is just alot simpler. And alot more shocking in many instances.

I don't know what you do for a living, but the next time you go to work, just look around where you work. Really look around. See for yourself what is there for the taking. Then consider the important part. Who can most easily take it? If it is you and people you work with like you, then you have an answer to this next part.

Looking at an arms manufacturer, the company takes in a million or more a year. How hard is it to believe that when throwing those numbers around someone would consider spending $150,000 to potentially earn back $250,000 in 2 years just for letting something sit in a warehouse, on a loan from an investor who just wants to make a solid 20% in 2 or 3 years.

Now obviously someone has spoken to people are HP and dispelled that idea outright. So it's a moot discussion really. I'm just sayin that it's not as cut and dry as you make it out to be. Your argument in my opinion is an overly simplified view of the possibilities.

I'll give you a more direct example. Why I buy and build RC airplanes.
I do it cause I love to fly them.
I own 6 planes right now. How many of them do I fly? 2. Why? Cause I got a good deal on the other 3 and one was a gift. I don't have time to fly all 6. But I know that these models will be worth just as much as I paid for them or more in the future. I have the closet space for the 4 I don't fly so it doesn't hurt me to sit on them until I come across some person or some situation where selling those planes becomes more beneficial than owning them.

Same thing with guns. I collect guns cause they are fun. And because guns rarely drop in value versus inflation. More of them are damaged and lost or simply left to neglect so if I keep mine in decent shape, they will without a doubt go up in value.
I kick myself on a daily basis for the purchases I passed up in the last 5 years where I could have paid $500.00 for a gun I know I could sell without hesitation for $1200.00 right now.
I had a guy hand me an HK SL8 and say, I want $500 for it. I paid more than that, but I've put enough rounds through it that $400 is fair.
I said I wasn't interested. $500 is too much for a plastic civilian rifle, said I!!! DOH!!!

Take that same argument, and scale it up to hundreds of thousands for the buy in versus millions for the potential gain, and anyone with the money to buy in probably won't waste much time thinking it over. Right?

Just something to consider.
 

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Well no I didn't give a dissertation on business if thats what you mean by simplified, but sure money takes awhile to roll back in but thats with product constantly moving out the door. Comparing HiPoint to BeBeers is sort of irrelavant also as HiPoint doesn't control the small arms market, and their entire business model is built on offering affordable firearms to the masses not collectors. I still find flaw in your argument that the owners are going to bank on future "possible" profit when the money is there to be made now. This isn't a commodity speculation market its hard goods and if you start failing to deliver customers start looking to Ruger or S&W or mossberg ,et al. If you are Hi Point that is the LAST thing you want as you are just starting to make inroads into those companies market shares. I don't profess to know anything about Hi Point or their financials, but suppose they are debt and investor free? Then sales has a very direct impact on bottom line. I see your points in general involving business but I don't think they apply in this specific. I agree in general most firearms storage doesn't probably have very much in the line of security but when you start talking about stockpiling massive amounts in a warehouse I would argue that maybe you're the one who doesn't understand liability in regards to weapons manufacturers. They get sued when people use their guns legally I can't imagine what would happen if an unsecured warehouse got jacked and the guns were used in a robbery or murder or drive-by etc. Thats my view maybe I'm way off base.
 

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Well no I didn't give a dissertation on business if thats what you mean by simplified, but sure money takes awhile to roll back in but thats with product constantly moving out the door. Comparing HiPoint to BeBeers is sort of irrelavant also as HiPoint doesn't control the small arms market, and their entire business model is built on offering affordable firearms to the masses not collectors. I still find flaw in your argument that the owners are going to bank on future "possible" profit when the money is there to be made now. This isn't a commodity speculation market its hard goods and if you start failing to deliver customers start looking to Ruger or S&W or mossberg ,et al. If you are Hi Point that is the LAST thing you want as you are just starting to make inroads into those companies market shares. I don't profess to know anything about Hi Point or their financials, but suppose they are debt and investor free? Then sales has a very direct impact on bottom line. I see your points in general involving business but I don't think they apply in this specific. I agree in general most firearms storage doesn't probably have very much in the line of security but when you start talking about stockpiling massive amounts in a warehouse I would argue that maybe you're the one who doesn't understand liability in regards to weapons manufacturers. They get sued when people use their guns legally I can't imagine what would happen if an unsecured warehouse got jacked and the guns were used in a robbery or murder or drive-by etc. Thats my view maybe I'm way off base.
I agree 100%
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
HiPoint45, I would say there are tons of flaws in my argument especially when someone called and asked them and they laughed at the idea.

I don't think you are off base at all. I just can't "not" make a counterpoint. lol. That probably sounds horrible. but feh!
I absolutely agree that Hi-point can't afford to miss many shipments.

I want a 4095 like nobodies business, but I am already looking at the Kel-tec sub2000 .40 mainly for the reason that, I can find them, they only cost a couple hundred more than the 4095 (theoreticly since I haven't seen a 4095 for sale in about 18 months), and I can buy Scherer Glock 22 28 round hi cap mags for about $30 each and as of yet not one single company has put forth a reliable high capacity magazines for either of Hi-points carbines.
They are about to lose money, from me.


Now as far as stockpiling goes.
If they are looking at the situation and realize that, perhaps, they can't keep up with demand. Then stockpiling in advance of a production ban would actually be a much smarter decision. Remember, they don't have to make the whole gun. Only the lower receiver has to have a serial number stamped into it. To be accurate I don't which part of the receiver has the serial number. "lower" receiver is just a prolific term when talking about un-assembled firearms.

If they crank out just stripped lowers, AFTER the ban, they can legally finish off all those serialized receivers. No part of the old ban stopped manufacturers from completing weapons that were being built on existing receivers. It just prevented them from making new receivers that didn't conform to the post ban regulations.

Your argument is predicated on the premise that they would be completing guns and putting them in crates. They don't have to make a whole gun and they know that.
If anyone did break into the warehouse all they could steal are registered serialized lower receivers that are functionally useless without all the other parts to make them a working firearm.

Look at the AR platform and Ak and so on. You can go right now on the web and buy an entire AK-47 minus the lower receiver which has the type-07 registration number, and have it shipped directly to your house, no questions asked, no paperwork. It's just a bunch of useless parts. You can even have one shipped that has a "fake" receiver attached that has no magazine opening and no bolt carrier assembly rails installed and the rivets are just regular pop rivets. Because there is no way you can take that collection of metal and make a 7.62x39mm round fire from it.

But the Ak lower receiver is just a stamped piece of sheet steel that is folded up and has some bolts put through it. That simple folded piece of metal has the rails to hold the bolt carrier assembly and the in-port for the magazine. With those two things you can make a Firearm. That is why you have to have an FFL to get ANY lower receiver in the mail.
Did you know that you can legally bend and rivet your own homemade AK-47 lower receiver without getting a serial number registration put on it? It's totally legal. All you need is a sheet metal cutter, and a 1200lb button press and you can make AK's for the rest of your life. No one can say or do anything about it. But the very second you try to sell it, or give it away to someone else, you are a felon for trading unregistered firearms.

I know all this sounds weird but there is reasoning behind it.
I am building my firearms collection around the idea of caliber uniformity. I own 2 Rossi .410/.22 single shot rifles for my boys. This covers them until they are well into their teens. They are also useful barter guns if I ever need such a thing. I have my Remington 870 express super magnum .12g. Every man just needs a 12 guage shotgun, whatever form it comes in. You just do!
I own a Mosin Nagant m44 carbine in 7.62x54r. It's a 1000 meter round about 600 from the carbine. It's just a very powerful cartridge and damn cheap.
I also own a Mosin Nagant 1891/30 in the same caliber. The 91/30 has a full 24 inch barrel. It is a very solid very accurate sniper rifle that holds 5 in the box. That keeps people far enough away that they are far enough away. lol
I also own a Hi-point 9mm sa, for the wife and a Hi-point .40 s&w for myself. So the next purchase I made was a Hi-point 995. This is a rifle that the wife can use " just in case". The Mosin is too long and the 12g is too strong. She's a short lady!
My next purchase is "supposed" to be a Hi-point 4095. This gives me a little better range with the same .40 round and is a little more intimidating looking than just pointing a pistol.
After that I only have 2 purchases until I feel that my collection is rounded for any SHTF situations. I need a solid semi-auto carbine in 7.69X54r, and another semi-auto rifle in that caliber that can take Hi-capacity magazines. Now the Finish SVT-40 uses that caliber and has a 10-round magazine and is gas operated semi-auto and reliable as the sun and the moon. So I will be picking up one of those. The Romanian PSL also uses that caliber and is a designated marksman rifle that has a 24 inch barrel and a 10 round magazine and is basicly a scaled up clone of the AK-47 so it also is incredibly reliable and durable. Since it is using an AK-style magazine I'll buy 5 or so of the 10 round magazines and retro engineer a 20 round magazine from splicing two tens, and creating a bigger springer. If that works then I will try to splice 3 mags. If that works then I take the dminesions of the new 3 splice mag and stamp out my own hi-cap PSL mags. The great thing about the PSL is that they also have a few versions of it with a 16 inch barrel and a folding stock called the Para PSL. I'll probably focus on one of those.
The whole reason for this ideology is that if your collection only needs 4 types of rounds to arm everything you have, then it is easier to stock up on ammo cause you aren't using space for ammunition that only fits one weapon. With the hi-points I should be able to purchase 10 995 magazines and use them in the pistol too. And 10 .40 magazines work back and forth. Since all of my rifles will be 7.62x54r I never have to worry about running out. It's almost the same round as a .308 so it is good for every scenario greater than 50 yards. I'll have the hi-points for everything inside 50 yards.

Now my whole collection has one thing in common. The weapons all try to share ammunition. The ammunition is all in a caliber that is very popular and easy to come by and cheap. Even the 7.62x54r. There are so many rounds of that around the world I can buy 800 rounds right now for $100.00. Say that about .223 or .308 or even 7.62x39! It's easier to find 54r right now than it is 9mm.
The other thing is that all the firearms I am currently purchasing are considered, "Cheap" guns. But every weapon I own so far is easy to break down and clean. Not a single one of them has misfired or jammed. And all of them combined fit into the space behind the very back k seat of my expedition with room to spare for crates of ammunition if I so need to haul my families collective a$$es back down to the hills where my roots are.
So I'm not just talkin crazy for the fun of it. I've put alot of thought into why I am collecting the firearms on my list. Hi-point has kind of irked me because they are the only thing slowing me down currently. I don't want to buy a .40 carbine other than theirs.
They just can't seem to make enough of them so that I can find one! lol.
 

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Well ButterBone I don't mind a good debate I like to see myself talk too..lol. As far as your arms plan goes that sounds reasonable to me very smart planning ahead. My own "collection" as small as it is isn't quite so same caliber so I need to stock a bit more ammo, however I have a .22 revolver and a .22 rifle which as you know are versatile and i think a bit overlooked, you can take alot of game with them and nothing wrong with a .22 pistol for backup especially with the 22 mag cylinder in it. Then I have the HP .45 for home defense etc I have a 91/30 on layaway which i will get soon and then the only other thing that fits both want/need is a shotgun..as you say I just have to have one. You're much more 1 caliber than I and I see the logic of it, my guns are "cheap" as well bought more from oppurtunity and cash on hand than trying to stick to 1 caliber. Either way an armed citizen is ahead of the game.
 
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