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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
First the criteria.;
  • It must work well in a single shot rifle and pistol
  • It must work well in long barrel for a pistol -12 to 14 inches
  • It must work well in a short barreled rifle - 17 to 20 inches
  • it must be effective on wood chucks and deer to 250 yards
  • It must use the 223, 308, or 30-30 as the parent cartridge case
  • It must be in one of my favorite calibers, 25, 28, or 35
First the 35 caliber. It’s basically already been done. The 35-30-30 has been around for many many years. The 357 Herrett has been around since the 1970’s. the 223 and 308 has been necked up, shortened and necked up, etc. It has pretty much all been done. And even with light bullets it is not much of a ground hop cartridge. Let’s scratch the 35 caliber.

I have always said that the 28 caliber was the "sweet spot". My first wildcat was the 7mm International rimmed. But that cartridge belongs to Bill Gates. Then Ken Waters improved upon it with the 7mm Waters. The 308 has been necked down, shortened and necked down, and thev223 has been necked up, so those are out. Which brings me back to the 7mm International Rimmed and it’s 30-30 parent case. Tale a question from the .357 Herrett and shorten the case to 1.750" neck it to accept a .284 bullet and viola! The .284 Greg. 120 grain bullets will be at approximately 2300 FPS and the 100 grain bullets should get close to 2400 feet per second within safe pressure levels. Not bad, but then why not just use the 7mm Waters. It out performs the .284 Greg and you don’t have to splurge for a custom barrel or dies.

Back to the drawing board. I took the .284 Greg and necked it to .257. to come up with the .257 Greg. Yes, there are other .25 caliber cartridges based on the 223 and 308, but none that I could find based on the 30-30 except for the obsolete 25-35 Winchester. With the 30-30 (actually planning on using 375 Winchester brass) case shortened, necked down, and blown out I envision velocities around 2500 FPS with a 100 grain bullets and around 2700 FPS with the 75 grain bullet.

I have been thinking about this for a while now, and since I was recently stimulated by our government, I was able to order the Contender from the LGS. EABCO I do believe will be my choice for the barrel, but I am waiting to hear back from Match Grade Machine. Shopping around a bit here, barrels are EXPENSIVE! And turnaround will be 9 to 12 months. Lee Precision will make the dies for me.

Kind of excited. Hope it works as I envision.
 

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Interesting. Be pretty cool to have your own cartridge. Nice to see the 30-30 getting some respect.
 

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Sounds like you want the 7mm-08.
140 grain at 2400 fps, 120 grains 2800 or better, and 110’s at 3000+.

No need to reinvent things.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Sounds like you want the 7mm-08.
140 grain at 2400 fps, 120 grains 2800 or better, and 110’s at 3000+.

No need to reinvent things.
The 7-08 has already been reinvented. You know I am fond of the .28’s and the 7-08 is a very good cartridge. But not for what I want. 7 BR, 7 TCU, 7 IHSMA, 7 Int-R, and the 7 W would all be better choices than the 7-08. I have shot enough 7-08 out of a 16" Compact Hawkeye to know that the 7-08 is better served in a 20 to 24 inch barrel. Muzzle blast and flash is horrendous and velocity loss is considerable In a short barrel.

I did consider the 7mm IHMSA, which was the answer to the 7-08 for the silhouette crowd. Based on the 300 Savage case shortened to 1.866" and necked down, it gave all the performance that could be expected out of the 7-08 in shorter barrels with much less flash and blast. Easily formed from most any brass with the 308 case head size, and it’s available commercially. It covers the bases that I am looking for very well, groundhogs to deer. Dies and barrels are available... But no, it’s not my cartridge. Very interesting, but not mine. Then again, I have not ordered the barrel yet.......???

The .257 Greg would capitalize on the work of Bob Milek and Steve Herrett who took the 30-30 Winchester, shortened the case and blew out the body, loaded a 30 caliber slug in it pushed by a fast burning powder, and got near 30-30 ballistics out of the T/C Contender without the blast and flash associated with the 30-30 shot out of the same platform. It would be uniquely mine. Not trying to make the "most popular" as almost no .25 caliber makes the most popular list. 25-45 Sharps was a flash in the pan, and how many have heard of the .25 Souper? 25-20 Winchester, 250 Savage, 257 Roberts, 25-06, and 257 Weatherby Magnum are about the only 25’s that ever had any kind of popularity.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Rechamber a barrel yourself for the first time, then you get your own cartridge.
I have re-chambered several barrels. 22 K Hornet from 22 Hornet. 30-30 AI from 30-30. 300 Whisp-R from 300 BLK. And 17 Hornet from 17 HMR. All done by hand as I don’t have the tools to do them any other way. This will be a barrel blank, not a conversion from another cartridge. It would be a task by hand, one that I don’t want to do. Any buying a metal lathe is out of the question for 1 barrel.
 
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The 7-08 has already been reinvented. You know I am fond of the .28’s and the 7-08 is a very good cartridge. But not for what I want. 7 BR, 7 TCU, 7 IHSMA, 7 Int-R, and the 7 W would all be better choices than the 7-08. I have shot enough 7-08 out of a 16" Compact Hawkeye to know that the 7-08 is better served in a 20 to 24 inch barrel. Muzzle blast and flash is horrendous and velocity loss is considerable In a short barrel.

I did consider the 7mm IHMSA, which was the answer to the 7-08 for the silhouette crowd. Based on the 300 Savage case shortened to 1.866" and necked down, it gave all the performance that could be expected out of the 7-08 in shorter barrels with much less flash and blast. Easily formed from most any brass with the 308 case head size, and it’s available commercially. It covers the bases that I am looking for very well, groundhogs to deer. Dies and barrels are available... But no, it’s not my cartridge. Very interesting, but not mine. Then again, I have not ordered the barrel yet.......???

The .257 Greg would capitalize on the work of Bob Milek and Steve Herrett who took the 30-30 Winchester, shortened the case and blew out the body, loaded a 30 caliber slug in it pushed by a fast burning powder, and got near 30-30 ballistics out of the T/C Contender without the blast and flash associated with the 30-30 shot out of the same platform. It would be uniquely mine. Not trying to make the "most popular" as almost no .25 caliber makes the most popular list. 25-45 Sharps was a flash in the pan, and how many have heard of the .25 Souper? 25-20 Winchester, 250 Savage, 257 Roberts, 25-06, and 257 Weatherby Magnum are about the only 25’s that ever had any kind of popularity.
How about necking down the .30 Carbine case to .25?

eldar
 

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The .257 Greg would capitalize on the work of Bob Milek and Steve Herrett who took the 30-30 Winchester, shortened the case and blew out the body, loaded a 30 caliber slug in it pushed by a fast burning powder, and got near 30-30 ballistics out of the T/C Contender without the blast and flash associated with the 30-30 shot out of the same platform. It would be uniquely mine.
You know....you CAN load with less powder, or different powder, and get rid of the flash and stuff.

But you really do want YOUR cartridge. That’s cool. And the .257 Greg sounds like a good way to get there, the 28 and larger stuff would probably be harder to get up to speed without more powder, and then would lose a lot in a shorter barrel. That’s 6.5 mm, so you’re from 140 down to 100 brains give or take? Unless your .257 is more of a quarter bore?
 

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You sound like my son, @greg_r 🤣 He's even said this, but wants it on an AR platform.

Must be a USMC thing, in part...
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
You know....you CAN load with less powder, or different powder, and get rid of the flash and stuff.

But you really do want YOUR cartridge. That’s cool. And the .257 Greg sounds like a good way to get there, the 28 and larger stuff would probably be harder to get up to speed without more powder, and then would lose a lot in a shorter barrel. That’s 6.5 mm, so you’re from 140 down to 100 brains give or take? Unless your .257 is more of a quarter bore?
.257 is a quarter bore.

and sure, I can download full size cartridges, but downloaded cartridges are not necessarily efficient. And I am not looking for a "hand cannon"

How about necking down the .30 Carbine case to .25?
Interesting thought. I think I want to stay with 223, 308, or 30-30 case head size though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·

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.257 is a quarter bore.
Yeah, I asked that weird. What I meant was, are you looking to set the twist up to deal with the "6.5 mm" 140 grain bullets, or stay with the lighter sub-120 grain 25-06 type, with the slower twist?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Yeah, I asked that weird. What I meant was, are you looking to set the twist up to deal with the "6.5 mm" 140 grain bullets, or stay with the lighter sub-120 grain 25-06 type, with the slower twist?
the lighter bullets. I think 75 to 100 grains. Probably looking at a 1:9 or 1:10.
 
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