If your house is under siege....

Discussion in 'Vintage Topic Archive (Sept - 2009)' started by Buckeye, Dec 4, 2007.

  1. what would be the best way to defend it? Unfortunately, my house is not brick, so any bullets will probably pass clear through! I'm afraid there would be no place to hide/shoot at any SHTF BG groups without getting filled full of lead myself. If we had time the best option would be to bug out.... but what if we can't?
     
  2. andrew241

    andrew241 Member

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    Well in a true SHTF and no help is coming and I can't bug out, hmm thats a tough one. I would say hit the basement since its underground but there is only one way in and one out from there. Thats a good one to think about.
     

  3. My suggestion would be to keep low, and if incomming fire is keeping you from returning fire, cover the entrances and shoot them as they try to come in.

    That is a good question. I live in a mobile home and if I had my preference, I would be outside in the woods ready for them and they would be in my field of fire.

    But there is no guarantee that you would have prior warning so...........
     
  4. andrew241

    andrew241 Member

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    Must def Watham. I would rather be at my bugout location lol, heck there I can run cirlces around just about anyone. Thats one place I can honestly say I could pretty much make my way around blind.
     
  5. griff30

    griff30 Member

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    BG groups ?
    Ok, I was not going to reply to this. Honestly I was going to move on. But I assume you are saying you want to defend a tin can from a disadvantaged, closed position, and you expect to out gun a group of people who have YOU outgunned and out trained?
    Advice number 1:
    Give up. Or run, either way get out.
    Take a history lesson from every damn seige there was, you cannot ever win. EVER. The "enemy" can continously reinforce with more man power who are always training. No one has ever sucessfully defended a stationary encampment, so risk your life trying if you wish but in every case at least someone inside dies. Ask Randy Weaver's wife or the Branch Davidians.
    Tsun Tsu said DEFEND NO LAND. Take the advice. The Vietnamese kicked our ass because they stayed MOBILE. Thier entire culture kept moving, undergraound at times too. The only thing you NEED to defend is your a%$&s and you can't do that from any place you can't move from. You run and get help. Period. Have 3 forms of communication at all times and use them for help. Call the lawyer, call cops, call anyone who will listen. Do not start thinking that defending your trailer is gonna get you points for chivalry. Just because you own a gun, can shoot and hit a paper target well, means your ready to take on any "groups".

    Advice number 2. Rent a comedy tonight instead of an action flick. LOL
     
  6. Well I wasn't really thinking of trying to take on a well organized paramilitary group. Was more thinking of a band of 5 - 10 thugs trying to thrill kill or take over the place after SHTF. No way to defend a house against a well trained large group. Would def bug out if there was time.
     
  7. 69burbon

    69burbon Well-Known Member

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    Good advice griff!

    Back on post --
    There is little you can do from a fixed position. Unless you have a secure exit or reinforcements coming in your screwed. The BG can take random shots and not expend their ammo unless they have a shot.

    A few years ago the police busted a drug kingpin here in Michigan. This guy had ties to a builder and had quite the house built. From the outside it looked like a typical farmhouse. Once inside after closer inspection you realized it was a fortress. The center section of the first floor was built from reinforced concrete that had access to an escape hatch into the basement. Once in the basement everything looked normal until you measured it and found it was 8 foot smaller all the way around. there was a 3ft 6 inch hallway all around the outside wall. this is where the drugs were stashed. There was also an escape tunnel that ran something like 500 feet out to the barn.

    After this guy got busted (away from the house) one of the local TV stations got wind of the house and managed to get a tour by the LEOs searching the place. They had fun filling the tunnels with concrete and dirt once the search was over.
     
  8. neothespian

    neothespian Member

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    Easiest way to beat a siege??

    Take the advice from the best Samurai from the Tokagawa period (original quote unknown...found in a set of memoirs from the period):

    When attacked from within, move outside. When attacking from outside, move within. The only fault is when your foe knows what you need to do.

    Seems pretty simple and incomplete but it makes perfect sense. If you're in a place that is static and the enemy has the advantage of mobility, evacuate the fortification, but do so without their knowledge if possible.

    Better to be outside than within.
     
  9. Kelotravolski

    Kelotravolski Member

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    Brick is pretty brittle I imagine that bullets would penetrate fairly well depending on the quality of the brick.

    I always remember the Urban Race Riots where the Koreans got up on top of their stores and homes with "assault rifles" and kept the mobs at bay by shooting anyone who set foot on their lawn.
     
  10. griff30

    griff30 Member

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    If just 5-10 thugs and you have comms,
    Kelotravolski would be right, find or make a high ground with cover. This may oblitherate resale value of your home of course, depeding on how it looks. the idea would be a porch with stairs leading to a balcony with cover, this would be ideal. You could trap door a room to the crawl space and place sand bags along the side paneling. Make sure you have a phone line down there along with shoot holes. Sand will stop bullets, but funny it wont stop arrows.
    Or make a safe room with kevlar in the walls, to hole up. I would use the bathroom stash some food ect and make sure there is a phone line and CB and cell phone in there.
    Comms, comms, comms.
     
  11. SHOOTER Z

    SHOOTER Z Well-Known Member

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    Take a history lesson from every damn seige there was, you cannot ever win. EVER


    Not true!! Gibralter during WW2 was under seige and was never defeated also the seige at Ke Sahn [spelling] in Vietnam was broken Also the Vietnamese would have lost IF our great leaders in DC [who had NO military training] would have let the military fight the way they wanted to and also closed Norh Vietnams harbors so they couldn't get any more supplies in.
     
  12. dirtimdebbie

    dirtimdebbie Guest

    Boys, Boys,,,,,a siege and an assault are two different things.

    Tatics come in two parts, offense and defense. Some of the greatest battles in history were DEFENSES.

    I was just in a history class where the prof stated that there is no record of a frontier fort ever being conquered only by small arms fire. In every instance of conquest of those simple log forts it required either artillery or someone opening the gate for those families, armed only with single shot muzzloaders, to be overwhelmed.

    He sited one instance in Middle TN where 12 men, women and childern held off 400 warriors for 3 days. The bad guys finally gave up and went home toting a lot of dead bodies.

    My "home", for two of the past 5 years, was a tent with blast protection. Ever heard of SANDBAGS?

    Then there are folks like my Dad. He included 3/8"steel plate in all his exterior walls. Below that is a basement of 12" reinforced concrete with well spaced and very small windows.
     
  13. SHOOTER Z

    SHOOTER Z Well-Known Member

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    True while a siege is along drawn out process from several days to months and assault is usually a quick fast moving attack. And in my hometown in Maine there is a story of 2 families holding off 200-250 Indians for a week

    And yes I have heard of sand bags filled more then my share of them Thank You!!

    You must not be familiar with the GS Patten tactic in battle "Always attack never defend"
     
  14. SharpsShtr

    SharpsShtr Member

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    Definitely good words, however there are no absolutes in combat.


    Matt
     
  15. Kelotravolski

    Kelotravolski Member

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    problem with building up your walls to thick is you may block radio waves and cut off your comm. If you have an exterior antenna and abase station then you are probably okay but you have to watch out for sabotage.

    I think most attacks on your home during a SHTF scenario will be groups of thugs with maybe a pistol and some pipes or clubs. You do not want to up and run just because four escaped convicts show up. Just shoot the whole lot of them when they get close to your house. Now if it is professional soldiers you are SOL.
     
  16. griff30

    griff30 Member

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    Sand bags do work, as I said in my post above. I still say that a safe room is a good idea. Packing the walls with kevlar or sheet metal and cloth can stop most handgun ammo. Have 2 exits and soft patches you can shoot through and peep out. Number one though againand I can never state enough: Communications. You don't have to be the Lone Ranger. There are people who will help even in a gunfight if you ask.
    Seriously look into CB, HAM, cell phone regualr phonea and even internet for help. You said "WE" in your first post I assume someone can be delgated to comms, while someone with a good shot fights back offensively.
     
  17. Thanks for the input guys. I did find an interesting site for kevlar & fiberglass panels for bulletproofing. If you're interested check out WWW.pacificbulletproof.com go to the Architect Specs section. Might be just the ticket for a safe room if you got the cash!
     
  18. 9mmXfactor

    9mmXfactor Member

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    if you own a weight bench it could provide you with some cover (45 lbs weights anyone?).


    not the best cover but i'd rather be behind it than nothing. the weights could also be propped up against walls for protection.
     
  19. griff30

    griff30 Member

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    Good find Buckeye
    I was gonna suggest simply padding an interier wall like the bathroom with fiberglass. I read an article on once. They took the drywall off and tacked and layered many sheets of cheap(er) fiberglass cloth in the walls and resined it layer by layer. Its cheaper at an auto parts store and about 75% of the strength of Kevlar. Soo about 15 layers or more is pretty safe. the dry wall also eats some bullet energy. Regualr Kevlar is 12 layers safe. The other ting is mark interior soft patchs where you can shoot out and hit them at leisure. A safe room is in my next houses plans :)
     
  20. On the January 22nd 1879 the British Army suffered one of its worst defeats when Zulu forces massacred 1,500 of its troops at Isandlhwana. A short time after the main battle a Zulu force numbering in excess of 4000 warriors advanced on a British hospital and supply dump guarded by 139 Welsh infantrymen. The film concentrates on this bloody 12 hour battle during which the British force, under their commander from the Royal Engineers who happened to be in the area building a bridge and happened to be senior to the infantry officer, won 11 Victoria Crosses. While taking some liberties with history the film follows reality fairly closely, including matching exactly the identities of the VC winners.

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058777/plotsummary