Information for Utah Voters

Discussion in '2nd Amendment' started by 1024Megabytes, Sep 23, 2014.

  1. Donna McAleer is the Democrat running against Rob Bishop for his Congressional seat. Here is an article written by her on the 2nd Amendment. Read it and come to your own conclusions:

    An Organically Grown Domestic Arms Race
    By: Donna McAleer

    On the way to school this morning, my daughter casually mentioned that one of her friend's father's carries his hunting gun with him wherever he goes. In querying how she learned this, my daughter said "because she told us at lunch." My third-grade daughter continued that he has a piece of paper that says he can. I told her that piece of paper is called a concealed weapons permit. As we pulled up to the school entrance, I asked why would he need to carry a hunting weapon with him at all times. She said, "I don't know. Love you. Bye," and hopped of the car and skipped into her school.

    On my way home, I mulled two thoughts. "Do more people having guns make me feel safer?" And: "Do I want my daughter going to her friend's home for a play date knowing that father is possibly wearing his gun in the home?"

    I carried a gun, actually several. They were tools of my job, the profession of arms. As a former Army Military Police Officer, I packed both an assault rifle and a pistol. I trained and qualified with them regularly. I know what they are capable of. Assault weapons are designed for one purpose, killing quickly. High-capacity magazines are manufactured to unleash a barrage of bullets rapidly. Armor-piercing bullets are made to penetrate protective plates of vehicles and to kill the occupants efficiently.

    Despite 30,000 guns deaths annually, and living in the most heavily armed nation -- 304 million people and 200 million registered weapons -- the NRA remains steadfast in its proclamation that more guns make us safer. "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun!" defiantly stated Wayne LaPierre, NRA executive vice president in the week following the brutal massacre of 26 elementary school children and educators in Newton, Conn.

    The preferred safety recommendation offered by the NRA advocates is placing armed guards in schools. It offers a frightening scenario in two ways and continues to ignore the public safety that assault gun ownership threatens. First it turns our nation's schools into armed camps. Second, no one knows how that armed guard will react when confronted with a weapon-wielding assailant intent on mass murder.

    A recent incident in August in front of the Empire State Building in New York City is instructive. Police officers -- professionals trained in the use of guns against armed assailants -- confronted an armed man after he shot and killed a co-worker. A gun battle ensued just as visitors to the city queued up to ascend the iconic New York skyscraper in one of Manhattan's busiest neighborhoods. The gunman was killed and bullet fragments hitting other objects wounded several bystanders.

    Gun control which as been part of our history, even here in the West, has been hijacked by gun lobbyists, most notably the NRA, and demonized into gun confiscation, something that it is not. The 2nd Amendment was ratified at a time when it took an average of 60 seconds to load a musket with one bullet.

    In its entirety, the 2nd Amendment states, "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Now through the advances of technology, 222 years later, it takes 60 second to unload a rifle with a clip of 140 bullets. Do you truly believe that our Founding Fathers intended this amendment to be carte blanche for individuals to build personal arsenals and for gun manufacturers to sell combat assault weapons and high capacity magazine at will for profit?

    Read more at:
  2. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

    NE Utah
    She's an idiot, her arguments disgust me with their worn out stupidity and ridiculous points; and if she wins a Utah seat, I will be very surprised.:rolleyes:

    One of her stupid propaganda lines...

    "High-capacity magazines are manufactured to unleash a barrage of bullets rapidly."

    No, actually, they are designed to make it possible to maintain suppressive fire longer between reloads, you silly woman. To unleash a barrage rapidly, we'd want full auto.

    "Armor-piercing bullets are made to penetrate protective plates of vehicles and to kill the occupants efficiently."

    So what if they were? Nothing in ANY of your previous points mentioned them, most of us don't have any protective plates on our vehicles, and by the way...they are NOT designed to "kill efficiently", they are designed to penetrate and cause havoc, tear crap up, and make life miserable, painful and short for anyone behind that plate.

    Seriously, can you push any more hot topic buzzword buttons designed to make the left squirm? I think you may have missed a few.:rolleyes:
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2014

  3. I work in Utah down in Salt Lake City. Most of my co-workers own firearms. They like magazines that hold over ten rounds and many of the other things you say are evil in your article Donna.

    Gun Control is all about taking away civilian firearms, not guns owned by politicians, their body guards or the police. I wonder how many firearms Donna McAleer owns or if she has an armed body guard?

    Rob Bishop is a great supporter of the Second Amendment. Donna McAleer, prepare to lose your run.
  4. FlashBang

    FlashBang I Stand With Talon Lifetime Supporter

    So she heard he carries his "hunting gun" with him and automatically decides it is a sidearm? Mention hunting gun to a normal person and the first thing they will think of is a rifle or shotgun. Mention that in Texas and we will think you are referring to his "truck gun" for dispatching hogs or coyotes.

    She should ask herself "If only criminals had guns would I feel safer?"
    And then she should ask herself "Do I want my daughter going to her friend's home for a play date knowing that father is POSSIBLY a pedophile?"

    An Army MP's profession is Law Enforcement, not arms. You would think that as an MP she would know the difference between full automatic and semi-automatic weapons.
    As someone who supposedly was in the business of "arms" she should also know that AP rounds are illegal for civilians and typically disintegrate upon entry through armor in order to spread the damage area.

    Typical leftist distortion and misrepresenting facts, remove the gang killing using illegal weapons and then look at whats left. Then compare this number to the number of times a firearm is used to protect and show the ratio.

    Love how she continues to throw the term "assault" out there. Her logic is completely hosed.... no one knows how a driver will react when a child runs out in front of them either, so should we ban automobiles?

    NYPD Officers do not get training throughout the year for firearms proficiency. Additionally, the NYPD requires all of their handguns ( Glocks ) be equipped with the New York trigger. The Glock with the New York trigger has a trigger pull weight of 12 lbs. Remember if your pistol weighs 2 lbs loaded and you have an 12 pound trigger pull it will take 6 times the loaded weight of the the handgun to make it fire. This means for the typical shooter it is virtually impossible to shoot the weapon accurately under stress. This leads to misses and an unintentional spray and pray approach when in a gunfight. The danger to innocent bystanders is increased dramatically and the very thing that was meant to make the pistol safer ( heavy trigger pull ) actually increases the danger to the public that LE officers are sworn to protect.

    And how does she explain statements by Democrats that they want all weapons confiscated? The Constitution was ratified at a time when it took 3 months to get to America from England, should we go back to sailing ships?

    Wow... this is wrong on so many levels. The 1st Amendment was written at a time when it took weeks/months for news to travel, does she think the Founding Fathers anticipated the Internet? The Founding Fathers in their time saw advances in firearms, it would be preposterous to think they thought no further advances would ever be made. They were very cognizant of this fact and ensured that the people would not ever be denied firearms by the inclusion of a simple and powerful statement "shall not be infringed". As a self professed expert on arms, she should also know that there was never a "clip" that holds 140 "bullets", there are "drums" that hold 150 "rounds" or "cartridges".

    No thanks.... I haven't had my shots.

  5. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    So tell her that she's not allowed. See how that flies.

    So either she wasn't really all that well trained, completely forgot her training, or is lying.

    Even if it were true, which it isn't exctly, it would have what to do with what?


    Peace favor your sword,
  6. Bull

    Bull Just a Man Supporting Member

    What!!!! Personal responsibility of telling your child no?..... Absurd..... But these self same people think it's perfectly reasonable to decide what liberal agenda hot button issues they think should be taught in schools, whether we like it or not...... But they're very uncomfortable with the idea I have a hunting rifle in my house... ImageUploadedByHi-Point Forum1411575197.533195.jpg
  7. bluharley

    bluharley Member

    I'm having a hard time thinking of an incident where a person legally carrying a concealed weapon went on a murderous rampage. It is always someone who shouldn't be. I like the old classic, "If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns". If they try to take our guns away, it will be from the law abiding citizen, not the criminal because they don't know what criminals have.
  8. Dead on, EXCEPT: the military is a profession of arms, whether you are special forces or motorpool.
    So no matter what you do in the service, you are a Professional of Arms first and foremost.
  9. Badger5977

    Badger5977 Member

    She states she was Military Police Officer, yet she uses the terms 'clip', 'assault rifle' and 'large capacity magazines'. The Army (she states Military Police, the Air Force has Security Police) does not (at least in my experience) use any of those terms. Not denying she was in the military but do find it odd that she uses these terms. The Army refers to them as 'weapons' M16/M4 and 'magazines' (20 or 30 round). Clearly she is using the liberal/anti-gun buzzwords.

    I really want to question her authenticity and training. I have never heard someone with military training/experience use those terms) maybe Pogue/REMF.
  10. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

    NE Utah
    Not really. I got to play with my weapon about once a month, but only got bullets twice a year.

    I worked on trucks daily, until I was put in the installation coordinators office.

    I was a mechanic first, professional of arms second.

    The MPs in my post were physical security, they had weapons and bullets daily.
    But I'm with Badger, no one in the military in my day would ever call it a clip, or an assault rifle.

    TNTRAILERTRASH Supporting Member

    So the NATO spec green tip 5.56 that WallyWorld sells in the 150 box for $69.95 with the steel core is illegal? That is an AP round correct?
  12. Back2School

    Back2School Member

    First off, I really consider my self a moderate. I am conservative on many items and liberal on a few, but after reading this article, here is the only thing I can think of.

    People should check out who their kids friends parents are. Some might be worried they are gun owners, but the really scary ones are the Liberals that want to ignore/destroy the Constitution. Those are the ones you should not let your children play around. The anti gunners can site the number of people killed by guns (in any fashion including justifiable) and mourn every one of those deaths.

    Its just too bad they cannot count the number of people who put themselves in harms way and were injured or died making sure we have that stupid Bill of Rights that you so casually want to throw away. Which is worse? Someone who mourns the loss of a rapist/murderer? or someone who mourns the loss of a loving husband/father who died to protect the citizens and beliefs of this country? When you try to destroy ANY of the Bill of Rights, you are wasting the effort and sacrifice every soldier/sailor has ever made. You should ashamed.
  13. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    As I wrote, she was either very poorly trained, completely forgot her training, or is lying (deliberately misrepresenting facts and deliberately using hot-button words and phrases).

    Peace favor your sword,
  14. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    Well, yes, no, and maybe.

    AP rounds, first and foremost, are only illegal if they "can be" fired from a "handgun." That used to be significant, but with all of the AR and AK "handguns" now which use traditionally "rifle" ammunition, it's pretty much a moot point.

    Then it gets into definition of the bullet (projectile) itself. If it is constructed entirely from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium and "can be used in a 'handgun'," then it is AP; based mostly upon the theory that these alloys/metals are particularly well suited to penetrating armor because of their density and/or hardness. Or, if it is a jacketed bullet "larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile."

    So, most steel core ammo is not usually considered AP, unless the BATF really wants it to be.

    Peace favor your sword,
  15. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

    NE Utah
    No, it's not. The ATF has specifically said the SS109 and M855 green tip stuff is not AP, as it has lead as well as steel under the thin jacket.

    The people that make and sell it like to call it a "light armor piercing round" but that's just marketing.
  16. Interesting, was that pre or post-9/11? Because every branch since 9/11 has been hammering and hammering the complete opposite. I went to tech school with every branch to include Coast Guard and NOAA officers, and we would often drill together (well, not with the NOAA guys of course), and whether it was the Army DSs, the Marine DIs, or the Air Force MTLs, we were first and foremost our branch's sentinels; Marines, Soldiers, Airmen, Sailors, etc. first. Everything else was second, and each of those were within the profession of arms. This was reinforced later when I was in Airman Leadership School and we had Sailors present.
  17. We don't call them Security Police; I joined in '06 and ever since I've come in, they are Security Forces.
  18. FlashBang

    FlashBang I Stand With Talon Lifetime Supporter

    How many times per year do you do combat training/exercise with weapons, either live fire or simulators? How many times per year do you do live fire on the range and how many rounds per year do you expend?

    Just curious.

  19. Bull

    Bull Just a Man Supporting Member

    Funny how these people never ask stuff like, are there illegal drugs in the house?.... Or if they lock up their prescription drugs. Or if they've got their household cleaners and insecticides properly stored... Or how about do the parents drink while my kids are there without me.... ALL of these are way more commonplace, but you won't see them ask that.... Because that would be rude to invade people's privacy...... Unless it's liberally fashionable to do so.
  20. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    Many of the "old timers" (you know, older than 35 or so ;)) still call them "Security Police."

    Peace favor your sword,