Irons and Optics

Discussion in 'Hi-Point Carbines' started by mawguy, May 4, 2014.

  1. mawguy

    mawguy Sheep Dog Member

    I have been meaning to post a few pictures of how my 4095TS is set up. After hopping back and forth on irons or optics, I decided that it was not either/or, but possibly both. Getting a red dot sight to co-witness [more or less] is an easier task, but getting irons and a scope to work together is a different matter.

    What I came up with was what is shown in the picture. Mostly, I want to use my rifle without a scope, so leaving the irons on is mandatory. Occasionally, I might want to reach out a bit farther, so a scope would be nice.

    My solution was to use a UTAC 1" riser for an AR, but to mount it backwards. The guard for the rear sight is a bit narrow, but with a bit of coaxing [with pliers] I widened the area so that the UTAC fit into a neat channel of the rear sight.

    There are thumb nuts on the mount, so it is quick on and off. I haven't had a chance to sight the scope on the range, but it is laser bore sighted.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Not2ManyGuns

    Not2ManyGuns Member

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    Looks like a novel idea. I'll be interested in learning if it holds zero with the stock plastic rail.
     

  3. I have been thinking of setting up with both on my 995. I my idea to put the optic on top and the iron sights on the side at a 45 degree. Seen AR set up like that and I was impressed.
     
  4. mawguy

    mawguy Sheep Dog Member

    I seriously considered this method as well. I didn't want to give up the original front sight because a full rail, offset 45 setup gives up a lot of sight radius. Really though, I don't think that it would matter much with an iron/optic option. In the end, it was how it looked that made the difference for me. :)
     
  5. Not2ManyGuns

    Not2ManyGuns Member

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    It does look like a nice clean installation.
     
  6. talon

    talon the banned wagon

    why would it not? the rail is held securely to the carbine. unless he goes dragging it behind his truck or using it as a club, there's no reason it wouldnt hold.
     
  7. Not2ManyGuns

    Not2ManyGuns Member

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    I'm hoping it works, I think it is a great idea.
     
  8. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

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    Very glad I saw this! Might trump the 45 offset sights.

    Looks Great MAWGuy!
     
  9. If only it was see-thru. It looks like if you put another short rail under that it would be.
     
  10. talon

    talon the banned wagon

    i believe it IS. the rail is hollowed out so you can still use your irons by looking right thru the center of the mount. look at it again, you can see it.
     
  11. mawguy

    mawguy Sheep Dog Member

    You are exactly right on the measurement. If the riser was a 1.5" or higher, then you could use the scope or irons with the scope permanently mounted. With this setup, you can see the front sight in the channel under the riser, but you can't quite line up the rear with it.:(
     
  12. vvv See below. vvv

     
  13. talon

    talon the banned wagon

    notice i replied BEFORE that? its still an open setup though, so i was right in that regard. the fact that its not tall enough, without the OPs input, we both wouldnt have known.
     
  14. Actually, I would have known. mawguy has good intentions and ideas, but not the first to try it. Really there is nothing that hasn't been tried with these guns. here's a heads-up. If you EVER see a side mount that goes on the right side, with a cut out for the ejection port, attaches with the receiver cover pins, and extends up and over the rear sight..... get it. They are out of production and the company that used to sell them is defunct. Some other company is now using their shingle.

    There may be a few around that still have one of those side mounts, but they're as rare as hen's teeth and good luck finding a picture of it.

    I found a site that is in the same format as the site that used to carry the mount I was speaking of. I believe it is a reorganize of the old site, but the mount is not listed. http://www.thecountryshed.com/hipoint_9mm.htm
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2014
  15. mawguy

    mawguy Sheep Dog Member

    Just wanted to give an update after taking this rig to the range. First, I have to say that while this setup looks pretty cool, and it was a great idea, it didn't really work out. Here's why.

    The basic problem is that the scope sits too high on the gun. The reticle adjustment cannot compensate for the parallax difference between the scope and the barrel of the gun. "Zeroing" the scope at a range of 50 yards was not possible.

    That said, the scope could still be used with the mil-dots once you figure out which dot puts you on target at a given range. For me, this was not acceptable.

    When I took the scope off, I was hitting clay pigeons at 50 yards with the iron sights. I don't really need more accuracy than that.

    The project was a fail, but ended up in great fun at shooting and testing it out.
     
  16. Not2ManyGuns

    Not2ManyGuns Member

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    Thank you for the report.
     
  17. AS6

    AS6 Legible in My Own Mind Member

    The concept may not be a total lost cause. Facing a similar issue, (with a red dot mounted on a scope) I added a cheek plate. The carbine was not modified. However, the inside of the cheekplate was dremeled extensively.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. mawguy

    mawguy Sheep Dog Member

    ***UPDATE***

    This project may not be dead after all. I was kind in disbelief that I wasn't able to zero a telescopic sight at 50 yards, and that I had been hitting about a foot over the target. Soooo, I went back and retraced my steps and discovered a very interesting detail that I had previously overlooked.

    As I looked at the mounting lugs on the top rail of the gun, I detected that the diameter of the cross bolts was larger than the slots on the rail. With the retaining clamp off, I simulated mounting and unmounting the scope and saw that the mount with the scope on it was never exactly parallel to the bore of the run. In other words, it didn't sit flat on top of the rail, but was aimed either slightly up or down depending on what slot I was in.

    I took a sharp knife to the slots and beveled them until the cross bolts matched the rail. I mounted the scope with riser, put the laser bore sight on, and it was nearly dead on. After I take it to the range, I will update everyone on whether it zeroed at distance.

    Stay tuned.
     
  19. MachoMelvin

    MachoMelvin Well-Known Member


    A dremel is a Hi Point owners best friend!