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I have recently been on a quest for a micro nine. I have handled a few and chose the S&W Shield Plus. I am happy with my purchase and will honestly say that of all I handled that the S&W came out on top of the heap if for no other reason than it’s trigger. There, I have been called fickle about firearms and just wanted to get that out of the way. I have no regrets nor second thoughts. Now that that’s out of the way…….

Those who know me can have no doubts that I, a used to be Taurus fanboi turned Taurus hater, ian finding new things to like about Taurus. I had the opportunity th handle the new aTaurus micro 9, the G4X. Gone is that awful Taurus trigger. Replaced by one that is probably 2nd in line behind the new S&W trigger. Fit and finish was good as is feel in the hand. The sights were not bad with a blacked out rear sight. I would personally rate them at the bottom of the heap, but that’s just me. I am old and my tired eyes need all the help I can get.

I have owned a first gen S&W Shield in 40 S&W, and liked the pistol if not necessarily the cartridge,and I believe the KAHR is perfect for social work. While the GLOCK is not my favorite, I have often said if you are only going to have one semi auto handgun, make it a GLOCK. Unfortunately I have not had an opportunity to handle the Ruger Max-9…Ruger fan that I am , I must exclude it from my list. From my handling of the few micro nines that I have I would rate the Taurus G4X number 4 in this list. Tied with the GLOCK only because of longevity. If the Taurus proves reliable, and I think it will, and the option of night sights or fiber optics become available, it will likely move to #2 in my list, beating out my beloved KAHR.

And FWIW, and not intending to cause any hate and discontent here, just friendly conversation, the G4X beats out the gun that started the micro nine craze. The Sig Sauer P365. Possibly jaded by the Sig’s birthing pains, and the hefty price tag. I think the G4X is just the better pistol. It definately has the better trigger, at least comparing the two I had on the counter mat side by side.

Is it that the Taurus Bainbridge Ga plant is turning out a better product than the Brazilian plant, or has Taurus turned a corner? Don’t know, but there is another Bainbridge GA product in the display case at my LGS. The Taurus TX 22 Competion model. If it is still there after I get off work toda, I will be putting it on lay-a-way.
 

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I haven't even heard of the G4X. I'll have to check it out. I do like the look of the TX22. The P365 SAS has been on my list for awhile.
 

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I have been kind of looking at replacing my Kel Tec P11, the gun that was first into this size/capacity segment, still beating out most of the competitors for size and capacity (12+1). But the DAO trigger is something only a revolver fan could like and they won't love it until you do a spring update and stone the action, which can get it down to ~6lbs and smooth, but still loooong. Semi-auto guys will never like the P11 trigger because, regardless of how smooth or light the trigger gets, it's still DAO. And the sights on it are basic things that make the Glock plastic sights look reasonable. I've updated mine with fiber optics from Twisted Industries, which makes them fantastic for a non-optic sight, but there's no option for a RD unless you mill the slide.

So my P11, the first in this market segment, after doing extra work to it, has more capacity and a smaller form factor (win for P11), comparable sights (a wash), and at best not-quite-as-good a trigger (a win for the competitors). Most P11 fans have been telling KT for years now to update it with a striker instead of the DAO hammer and to add a rail, and (more recently) an optic cut. Instead of doing that, KT discontinued the gun. :p

So now I'm starting to look at the options to replace it. I've decided that with my not-25yo-eyes-any-more that I want to go to a RD so anything I buy will either have to come from the factory with an RD or, at the very least, have an optics cut option. Yeah, the P365 is the only one that matches the KT for size and capacity. And I could nearly buy 3 new pistols for what Sig wants for one of theirs. So I'll probably never buy a P365. I've shot one, though. They're nice enough and feel even slimmer in the hand than they actually are.

So not I'm looking at all the other competitors. The Hellcat, the MAX-9, the soon-to-be-released DVG-1RD, the Shield Plus, the G4X (if they ever release a TORO version of it - and I think they will), and whatever else the other competitors come out with.

I heard a faint rumor that KT might be working on something new in the P11 class, but I'm not sure how much stock to put in that rumor. After all, it's just a faint rumor and KT has been refusing to update the P11 for three-and-a-half decades. That's a long run for any pistol. How long did the G19 Gen 1 go for before Gen 2? Might Kel Tec have secretly decided to throw out the P11 and start from scratch to design an all new, root-to-twig, replacement? Sure. But if they did then their time line is more screwed up than Christina Crawford. They officially discontinued the P11 in 2019 and let everyone and their dog enter the market behind Sig, seriously eroding any market share which KT might have been able to capture if they had released a theoretical replacement immediately after discontinuing the P11.

So I'm looking at the other options.

I hate that all of them except the Sig gives up capacity to the P11, despite being larger.

The Taurus G4X really looks like it's going to be a solid competitor. Well, after they release the TORO version, anyway. The MAX-9 looks like a solid entry too.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I have been kind of looking at replacing my Kel Tec P11, the gun that was first into this size/capacity segment, still beating out most of the competitors for size and capacity (12+1). But the DAO trigger is something only a revolver fan could like and they won't love it until you do a spring update and stone the action, which can get it down to ~6lbs and smooth, but still loooong. Semi-auto guys will never like the P11 trigger because, regardless of how smooth or light the trigger gets, it's still DAO. And the sights on it are basic things that make the Glock plastic sights look reasonable. I've updated mine with fiber optics from Twisted Industries, which makes them fantastic for a non-optic sight, but there's no option for a RD unless you mill the slide.

So my P11, the first in this market segment, after doing extra work to it, has more capacity and a smaller form factor (win for P11), comparable sights (a wash), and at best not-quite-as-good a trigger (a win for the competitors). Most P11 fans have been telling KT for years now to update it with a striker instead of the DAO hammer and to add a rail, and (more recently) an optic cut. Instead of doing that, KT discontinued the gun. :p

So now I'm starting to look at the options to replace it. I've decided that with my not-25yo-eyes-any-more that I want to go to a RD so anything I buy will either have to come from the factory with an RD or, at the very least, have an optics cut option. Yeah, the P365 is the only one that matches the KT for size and capacity. And I could nearly buy 3 new pistols for what Sig wants for one of theirs. So I'll probably never buy a P365. I've shot one, though. They're nice enough and feel even slimmer in the hand than they actually are.

So not I'm looking at all the other competitors. The Hellcat, the MAX-9, the soon-to-be-released DVG-1RD, the Shield Plus, the G4X (if they ever release a TORO version of it - and I think they will), and whatever else the other competitors come out with.

I heard a faint rumor that KT might be working on something new in the P11 class, but I'm not sure how much stock to put in that rumor. After all, it's just a faint rumor and KT has been refusing to update the P11 for three-and-a-half decades. That's a long run for any pistol. How long did the G19 Gen 1 go for before Gen 2? Might Kel Tec have secretly decided to throw out the P11 and start from scratch to design an all new, root-to-twig, replacement? Sure. But if they did then their time line is more screwed up than Christina Crawford. They officially discontinued the P11 in 2019 and let everyone and their dog enter the market behind Sig, seriously eroding any market share which KT might have been able to capture if they had released a theoretical replacement immediately after discontinuing the P11.

So I'm looking at the other options.

I hate that all of them except the Sig gives up capacity to the P11, despite being larger.

The Taurus G4X really looks like it's going to be a solid competitor. Well, after they release the TORO version, anyway. The MAX-9 looks like a solid entry too.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
So those things that KrapTec makes are guns? Good to know!

JK…LOL! I actually like the PMR30. Kind of like the poor mans 5.7. I have had problems with both of the KelTec pistols I have owned though and found their customer service lacking.

The red dot was a prerequisite for me… until I started looking through them. I have an eye issue that makes dots look like slashes. Medicine in my glasses to fix it, but noticed I am seeing slashes again. I nixed the RDS and concentrated on what regular sights worked best for me.

I do agree that being red dot ready would be a selling point though as it will make or break a sell for many.

I do believe that Taurus got the G4X right though. High praise coming from me!
 
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I have always avoided Taurus.

When they released the G2C, all i heard was great reviews. Everyone touting how reliable they were so i took a gamble and bought one. Honestly, i had a 1911 with a broken extractor that ran better then my G2C did. So many problems with it. Failure to feeds, Failure to ejects, stove piping . . at one point the slide was cycling so slow that i could literally see it go back . . then forward. . then fail to chamber the next round.

I spoke with customer support and the guy on the phone suggested i purchase and install a lakeline steel guide rod and spring and that should resolve my issues lol. I was pretty flabbergasted at Taurus customer support telling me to buy aftermarket parts to make their gun run. . . but whatever

Since then i have taken it apart and smoothed out the slide rails and feed ramp a bit. I also picked up two new magazines. I havent gone back to shoot it since the pandemic, but it has definitely left a sour taste in my mouth. Admittedly, i only have about 80 rounds through the gun, and i have read that there is a 200 round break in period. . . but i still feel the issues its having is excessive even for a gun that needs broken in. I dunno, hopefully ill have better luck on the next trip out. . . but it will probably be my last Taurus purchase
 

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I’m with Greg on the RDS thing. I went in looking at buying one, but in a carry gun...my eyes and my training regimen said no.
Maybe on a larger duty gun, but I’m not spending the money on it for concealed carry.

I like the old DA/SA trigger of the Taurus PT series. The Sig P365 has a similar long pull trigger (except it’s NOT actually a long pull) without the “comes too close to the guard” issue, but in SA only. So I like the Sig trigger. Crazy thing, but it’s a NON-bladed single action style trigger with no external safety, the safety stuff is inside.
I handled the XL version with the straight blade trigger. Didn’t feel any better, it’s bigger and costs more. Not cool.

I agree that the Shield Plus triggers are amazing, TRULY excellent, but the Hellcat trigger was garbage. Oddly, the Mossberg trigger was excellent too, and at $400 with night sights, I was really tempted, but like the Shield, it didn’t point well for me.
They had no Taurus for me to play with, but I disliked the G2 trigger, every one I played with was notchy and felt cheap. If they fixed that...good.


I haven't even heard of the G4X. I'll have to check it out. I do like the look of the TX22. The P365 SAS has been on my list for awhile.
I handled the SAS version. The sights are neat, but would take time to master. The only side control, the slide release, was nearly impossible to use; in the process of smoothing the gun, they made the thing so small it’s simply not really functional. Maybe it would break in...but it’s an issue
 
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I handled the SAS version. The sights are neat, but would take time to master. The only side control, the slide release, was nearly impossible to use; in the process of smoothing the gun, they made the thing so small it’s simply not really functional. Maybe it would break in...but it’s an issue
I handled an SAS at the LGS. I love the idea but hated it when I was holding the gun.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
but I disliked the G2 trigger, every one I played with was notchy and felt cheap.
The trigger on the G4X is a lot like the Shield Plus trigger. Not as crisp a break and a tad heavier, but it was not a bad trigger at all.
 
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I might be interested in this pistol. But I'm going to hold out until it's been on the market a while. By then, all the patents for a micro 9 that HK recently filed might be bearing fruit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I have always avoided Taurus.

When they released the G2C, all i heard was great reviews. Everyone touting how reliable they were so i took a gamble and bought one. Honestly, i had a 1911 with a broken extractor that ran better then my G2C did. So many problems with it. Failure to feeds, Failure to ejects, stove piping . . at one point the slide was cycling so slow that i could literally see it go back . . then forward. . then fail to chamber the next round.

I spoke with customer support and the guy on the phone suggested i purchase and install a lakeline steel guide rod and spring and that should resolve my issues lol. I was pretty flabbergasted at Taurus customer support telling me to buy aftermarket parts to make their gun run. . . but whatever

Since then i have taken it apart and smoothed out the slide rails and feed ramp a bit. I also picked up two new magazines. I havent gone back to shoot it since the pandemic, but it has definitely left a sour taste in my mouth. Admittedly, i only have about 80 rounds through the gun, and i have read that there is a 200 round break in period. . . but i still feel the issues its having is excessive even for a gun that needs broken in. I dunno, hopefully ill have better luck on the next trip out. . . but it will probably be my last Taurus purchase
I have a few friends who own Taurus handguns. I actually own 2 now. A pre lock M85 38 special and a 692 38/357/9mm. My mom keeps the M85 as a bedside gun, I use the 692 in the same capacity. I would not let my mom, nor myself use them if I did not have 100% confidence in them.

My beef with Taurus is the pistols I lost due to the class action.

Most of those I know own the G2. No issues with them except I absolutely hate the trigger. The pistols had a reputation for the triggers breaking though. There is one here who had the trigger break.

I fondled the G4X again tonight. If I am not careful, Mark the Enabler, my favorite LGS clerk is going to sell me one.
 

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That G4X looks good at first blush, but it might be wise to see how it works in the long run. If the P365 had some issues at first, then a Taurus product likely will, too, and Taurus doesn't have Sig's customer service. When dealing with a company that has that kind of reputation, it's probably wise to make sure the bugs are all worked out.
 

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I handled the 365 SAS and the SA Hellcat at the same time. I went with the Hellcat. It just felt and fit my hand better. But I must say, the SAS still interests me. A buddy got one and it felt better than I remembered. Do I really need another 9mm? No...
 

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I might be interested in this pistol. But I'm going to hold out until it's been on the market a while. By then, all the patents for a micro 9 that HK recently filed might be bearing fruit.
What patents? HK has a micro 9?
 

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Most of those I know own the G2. No issues with them except I absolutely hate the trigger. The pistols had a reputation for the triggers breaking though. There is one here who had the trigger break.
I can confirm. Taurus did warranty the gun and fixed it. I don't recall if they paid shipping or not. I know that it seemed like it took a really long time for them to get it back to me. But they did stand by their product.

By the way, have you noticed that a lot of companies aren't willing to pay shipping any more on warrantied products? I just sent back some Walker's and had to pay my own freight. Fortunately, it was less than $5 but still...

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 
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That G4X looks good at first blush, but it might be wise to see how it works in the long run. If the P365 had some issues at first, then a Taurus product likely will, too, and Taurus doesn't have Sig's customer service. When dealing with a company that has that kind of reputation, it's probably wise to make sure the bugs are all worked out.
Taurus' CS has improved in the last decades or so. My experience with them is that it still took a frustratingly long time for them to service the gun. It would have been a big deal if it were my only/primary gun. But it wasn't.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

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Taurus' CS has improved in the last decades or so. My experience with them is that it still took a frustratingly long time for them to service the gun. It would have been a big deal if it were my only/primary gun. But it wasn't.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
At least they serviced it. Fast isn't always the same as good when it comes to service. Doing it right is the bottom line.

I've only dealt with a manufacturer's CS once, and that was to get the CA-model barrel nut off of my P-22 when I moved to Free America. Walther emailed me a FedEx shipping label, it went out, and they had it back, lickity-split.

Adams Arms also fixed a problem with an upper I got from them in no time. They were less than a week fixing it, and they did it right.

Honestly, I was expecting a few weeks for each item I sent back.
 

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I'm confused.
What exatly are they getting a patent for?
The "ornamental pattern and design" of a new handgun that became a finished concept in 2019, when the patent was filed. If you look at the renderings carefully, every part drawn in dotted lines are old parts being reused. Trigger safety, sights, etc. Solid line drawn parts are the new proprietary parts being patented. Slide, trigger, frame, etc.
 

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Taurus quality has been kinda' hit or miss (see how i did that..) I bought a PT111G2 when they first came out a number of years ago and it has run great. A few minor glitches but mostly been very reliable and economical to run. Based on that experience, when I was interested in another .380 I took a look at the TCP380 (the precursor to the Spectrum) and bought one. What a POS. Total jam-o-matic and all around dissatisfying experience. Others have had them that run fine but mine did not. Went through through all the break-in recommendations, boxes and boxes of various ammo, and still all the problems as described by others above. After a few months I traded it in a Ruger LCPII and never looked back. The Ruger has been rock solid. A year or two ago I had the chance to buy and additional PT111G2 for less than $200 and went for it. Again, it runs great. So it appears that either Taurus is extremely shoddy on QC or they have pros running the G2 line and total morons running the TCP line. Dunno, but that was my experience. I already have a few .22 semi-autos so I would not be interested in the TX22. YMMV.
 
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