jacket shavings or splinters

Discussion in 'Reloading Room' started by xtremeweather, Jan 7, 2016.

  1. xtremeweather

    xtremeweather Member

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    Looking for some advise or opinion on something I encountered last night. I'm relatively new to loading. have loaded a few 100 bullets so far, 9mm and 45 acp. Last night, I was getting some jacket shavings or splinters about 1 out of every 5 bullets both in the 9mm and 45... I do not remember running into this before. Using casings that have been shot 2 times now.. This will be the third load in them.. This normal? Suggestions?

    Thanks in advance.

    Chris.
     
  2. Fracman

    Fracman Member

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    Are you belling out the mouth of the brass?
     

  3. xtremeweather

    xtremeweather Member

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    By (belling) you mean trimming or using the powder dye to open the mouth a little.. I'm using the dye to open the mouth.. The brass has not been trimmed..
     
  4. Fracman

    Fracman Member

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    Are you seating the bullet and crimping in the same step?
     
  5. xtremeweather

    xtremeweather Member

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    No separate steps. I am getting the shavings during seating the bullet.
     
  6. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    Are you using the same brand and manufacturer of bullets between the 9 & 45?

    If so, perhaps the sizing is not micro-metrically consistent across all bullets. Might need to resize 'em.

    But that's probably not it.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  7. Fracman

    Fracman Member

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    I would try to opening the mouth some more.
     
  8. xtremeweather

    xtremeweather Member

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    No different brands actually.. Want to try different brands, accuracy ect..

    I will do that. Thanks for the information.
     
  9. Fracman

    Fracman Member

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    I use this on my rifle brass. I have not had to use it on my pistol brass. When I was loading my 45 colt I was seating and crimping at the same time I would get little lead rings I switched to seating the bullet and crimping process the little rings went away.
     

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  10. rickm

    rickm Member

    First off what kind of press you using if a single then more than likely not enough bell and if it is a progressive press of some kind very possible it is out of timing and not letting the brass and projectile line up properly
     
  11. xtremeweather

    xtremeweather Member

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    RCBS Rock Chucker Supreme.
     
  12. histed

    histed Supporting Member

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    Xtreme - your case mouth should look close to this before you try to seat the bullets.
    [​IMG]

    With lead bullets, it is advised that you seat and crimp in two separate steps to prevent lead shaving. If you need details on how to do this, ask here or PM one of us. Simple enough, even with a three die set. 10 to 1 that stops your problem.
     
  13. duster066

    duster066 Supporting Member

    I'm not sure you have a problem. Some metal loss is going to occur anytime you Force two surfaces together under pressure. I barely expand my cases and I load mostly lead. One possible and normal cause is a build up of normal metal losses in your dies. You are supposed to clean them regularly, but I don't until I start getting shavings and lube scrum. It looks like it takes 2, 3, maybe 4 hundred rounds. Clean them and see if it goes away.

    Edit: Guess I should explain why I don't over expand my case mouths. Simply to avoid excessive metal fatigue making the cases last longer. I've been at it for three or four years. I push my 357, 44, and 45s as hard as I can, I don't care if they lead the bore a bit. I'm still waiting for my original cases to start failing. Heck I'm still waiting for the used 357 and 44 cases (others were done with and that I got here) to start failing. The only consistent case failures I've had was from a batch of cop range 38 brass I got from my dad. I'd lose 1 to 2 percent with each batch. Those would usually fail along the walls, ruptures, a few would cracking at the mouth. I don't use 38 or 44spc cases anymore because I hate cleaning the carbon rings out of the chambers. I've built several excellent 38 and 44spc loads using magnum cases. Makes life easier.
     
  14. GoesBang

    GoesBang Supporting Member

    If you are shaving the bullet during seating, it's likely not enough bell.
     
  15. noylj

    noylj Member

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    The accuracy of more rounds has been destroyed by insufficient case mouth flaring than cases lost due to flaring too much. Flare the cases more.
    Why ruin your ammunition over a false worry about saving the cases? There are real worries and there are false worries--and too many on the net push false worries.
    Next, do you have the right seating stem installed for the bullets being used? A poor fit between the bullet and seating stem can let the bullet tip/cock during seating and scrape metal off the jacket or case.
    I would also suggest chamfering the case mouth inside and out, but you've already loaded the cases twice and NOT had shaving.
    You may have a die adjusted wrong, but you would have to make the same mistake with both cartridges.
    Finally, lead bullets don't lead unless you are doing something wrong or your revolver has a groove diameter larger than the cylinder's throats. In general, the bullets should be a tight slip fit the cylinder's throats and be at least 0.001" over the actual measured groove diameter.
    Pushing a lead bullet (even a 9-12 BHN) at any velocity a .357 Mag or .44 Mag can obtain will not cause leading unless bullet size is wrong, revolver dimensions are wrong, or the lube just plain fails. Back when I was shooting a lot of .44 Mags ('70s-'90s), I found that my cast bullets using simply wheel weights and a little tin if needed to improve casting did not lead, even with very heavy loads.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2016
  16. MXGreg

    MXGreg Supporting Member

    If you are not trimming your brass (I don't unless it's over max trimmed length) then you are belling different lengths of brass. A longer case will have a larger bell than a shorter case. Grab a handful of cases and measure them. Take your shortest cases and use them to set your die for a bell that works without shaving the bullets. You should be good to go.
     
  17. missiledefender

    missiledefender Supporting Member

    Sounds like the mouth of the cartridge isnt belled (opened) enough. So, when you press the bullet into the case, it shaves a little bit of copper, brass or lead from the bullet.

    It happens the most (with me) when I reload lead bullets. Sometimes the FMJ bullets are strong enough to push in, sometimes it just crushes the case.

    Try belling the mouth of the case just a wee more.
     
  18. duster066

    duster066 Supporting Member

    I think you may have responded to the wrong post. I'm not the OP. However I appriciate your points, and generally agree. I do flair my brass just not to the extremes binging shown here. The leading I get is light and represents no problem - for me. I believe you are correct in why. I don't bother slugging and sizing. I work em up, find the best, load em and shoot them. They get the job done - for me. I figure if I can get 100 lead rounds down range with the accuracy I'm getting there is no need for the extra steps...at this time. My next step was going to be sizing dies for my casting. But they outlawed lead WW here and the supply is gone. I now buy bulk packs, and am happy with the results.
     
  19. xtremeweather

    xtremeweather Member

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    Thanks for all the information guys. Went back to it last night. Had much better success. I also took a bit more time with each bullet when seating it. That in itself seem to help. Belling the casings makes a big difference. Thanks again!
     
  20. missiledefender

    missiledefender Supporting Member

    Thats why we get paid the big bucks