Judo for the win!

Discussion in 'Lounge' started by lklawson, Apr 22, 2014.

  1. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    Judo FTW

    First off, let me say that this is all past tense. I just found out about it tonight but it happened "a few days ago" (ahem, more or less). Some specific details have been redacted because it deals with a minor and PII.

    Anyway, my boy Christopher was at a “boys specific youth event” when, during an unsupervised moment, another boy became somewhat, err, “belligerent” with him. It wasn't quite a shoving match, but it was just short of that. The part that I specifically heard about (second hand, the boy doesn't know that I know) was the verbal exchange. It went, apparently, something like this:

    Other Boy: “I'm gonna <vague physical threat>”
    Christopher: “No you won't because I'll choke you out.”
    Other Boy: “I'm gonna kill you!”
    Christopher: “I don't know how you plan to do that because you'll be unconscious on the ground because I'll choke you out.”

    BWA-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  2. Bull

    Bull Just a Man Supporting Member

    At least he kept his composure.... Cool and composed always seems more intimidating than belligerent to me...
     

  3. Branth

    Branth Member

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    As a side note, isn't choking someone out considered lethal force? Just how dangerous is it, anyway? I've heard a couple of stories of people dying from it when the cops do it to them, so they started to phase it out.
     
  4. SWAGA

    SWAGA No longer broke... Lifetime Supporter

    Well don't keep us hanging, did he?
    What cops don't understand is that at some point you need to let go and get your 300 lbs off the guy.

    A headlock saved me twice in school, both times the same kid.
    A brown belt in Judo.....lol....not me...him...:)
     
  5. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    No. "Blood Chokes" are considered "less than lethal" submission techniques. They used to be known as "the sleeper hold."

    Done by someone who's received more than 38 seconds of actual training from a qualified instructor, blood chokes are remarkably safe. Done by someone who's never had any training outside of watching Randy Savage do it on TV as a kid, they turn into "wind chokes" (trachea compressions) in a heartbeat and, from there, into trachea crushes, which are, of course, quite lethal barring rapid application of a Tracheotomy. There were several high-profile cases of Correctional Officers misapplying one on a prisoner and killing them. The use of chokes has been revised in most Correctional Facilities as a result and now C.O.'s are no longer allowed to apply one to an inmate who is laying on his stomachache while the C.O. is in the "guillotine" position. It's just too easy to screw up in that position if not well trained.

    [​IMG]
    This is standing (not with the Uke laying on his face. You can see how easy it is to slip the forearm across the windpipe.

    The traditional "sleeper hold" or, as known in Judo, Hadaka Jime, is quite easy to get the forearm and bicep on the carotids and to "cup" the trachea in the pit of the elbow, thus protecting it.

    [​IMG]

    Here's an article by an MD on the subject: How Safe is Choking in Judo?. The link is to an article on JudoInfo.com so no points for guessing that this MD concludes 'pretty freaking safe' (to paraphrase). ;)

    I learned the right and the wrong way to do it from a cop (retired). 5th Degree Black Belt. Used chokes extensively in his career. Never a problem.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  6. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    Nah. Other kid was intimidated and backed down. There was more to the "I'll kill you" threat too that I left out. He had a pocket knife (probably not open - witnesses are not sure) which he used to pantomime drawing it across his throat (yes, disciplinary action has been taken). But, for some reason, my boy isn't particularly intimidated by some guy pantomiming threats with a knife (something about his dad, I guess... go figure :rolleyes:).

    No need to worry about the other boy. Like I said, that part's been handled now. I just get a massive kick out of it. I can clearly see Christopher going, "<pft> ...I don't know how you plan to do that because you'll be unconscious on the ground..." It's totally bad ass.

    Proper training is required.

    Cool. One of my students used my training to pop out of a headlock and a standing nelson. :p

    hahaha Not a particularly well trained one, I guess. Good for you, though! :)

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  7. bluebone

    bluebone Duke of Sarcasm Member

    I learned from watching Verne Gagne as a kid.
     
  8. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    hehe I guess I'm dating myself by invoking the Macho Man. ;)

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  9. SWAGA

    SWAGA No longer broke... Lifetime Supporter

    Good action on the part of your kid though.
    It's easy to be intimidated by physical stature when you're young.
     
  10. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

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    My son's first meet @ Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, he was matched against a similar weight, slightly more experience opponent. Choke-out FTW! ;)
    It took longer to revive the guy than it took to subdue him. The best defense for that hold is to draw the opponent closer, but the natural tendency is to push away, which tightens the hold...

    Good link Back, Kirk;)
     
  11. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    If he's got a Rear Naked sunk good there's precious little to be done though there are some things you can do to delay the inevitable. :)

    Your boy still doing BJJ? How old is he? Weight/height? Is he blessed with BJJ arms and legs (long)? Is he ranked yet? Is it BJJ, Machado, or GJJ?

    What can I say? Proud pappa. ;)

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  12. cicpup

    cicpup Resident PITA Supporting Member

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    :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:


    Out of context jokes rock.
     
  13. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

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    Coach broke his arm in a submission hold, obviously he did not "submit" :p
    His new nickname became Tony No-Tap :D
     
  14. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

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    That's funny, but kind of ignorant, by the coach. If the guy doesn't submit, you don't crank harder, unless you WANT to damage him. Some guys don't care about pain, which is great in a real situation, but not so good in the gym. :rolleyes:

    Better to tap out than get hurt, it costs a lot less time and money. Take the less painful, humiliating lesson, tap out, learn from it, and move on, without that cast!;)
     
  15. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

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    That's exactly what I said at the start, but since it was a training session, h started slowly and tightened the hold gradually. It (obviously, hindsight is 20-20) would have been much better for Tony to tap, but he did try and extract himself from the hold. Plus, the style of the hold, my son's very high pain tolerance (famous for that, even as a kid) and the fact that is was training kind of made it hard to avoid :eek: I was not there, but they heard it across the mat! Clean break and he said it never really did hurt much at all. No peripheral damage, or it would have hurt a lot more than it did. Very Strange Case.

    I kind of have a high pain tolerance too, mashed the end of my index finger clean off, and I was in the emergency room wiggling the exposed bone and looking at it :cool: No pain killers until they started working on it.
     
  16. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    So, young, strong, body type well suited, and well trained? I have a strategy for 'em passed to me by an older, wiser Judoka.

    I run 'em down in the parking lot with my car. ;)

    Sometimes training accidents happen. It's unavoidable, really. The trick is to minimize them and make them minor accidents rather than major.

    I'm also of the opinion that the coach screwed up. He should have a good enough feel to know that the lock was on and sunk. No escape possible. If the student keep struggling to a point where he could injure himself, the coach's job is to inform the student, "I have the lock on tight, you're not getting free without me letting go or breaking it, 'tap, nap, or snap', 'mkay?" If the student still won't stop struggling, then the coach has an obligation to let go. I'd suggest announcing "I'm letting go because I don't want you to be hurt" and then securing another hold, then another, then another, just to point out to the student that it wasn't an accident and that he needs to listen when the coach said, "you're caught." While I'm not suggesting that your son did this, if a student just won't listen, he needs to be politely asked to not participate until he figures that out for the safety of the other students.

    I really do think this was most likely a failure of the coach. I hope he learned from it. :)

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  17. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

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    Good Points, guys.

    It was a learning experience all around, I'm sure.
    I talked to the coach and of course, my son, and several of the guys that heard it <snap>!
     
  18. SWAGA

    SWAGA No longer broke... Lifetime Supporter

    No Tap Tony has a better ring to it by the way....

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Bull

    Bull Just a Man Supporting Member

    No tap..... Ohhh snap!!!!!
     
  20. SWAGA

    SWAGA No longer broke... Lifetime Supporter

    Double tap Tony?

    [​IMG]