[lklawson]

According to several sites now, leaded BATFE (ATF) documents show the Bureau intends to issue a new ruling on Pistol Braces which will "redefine" most guns with them attached as Short Barreled Rifles (SBR). You can either destroy your brace or register your gun as a SBR (or put a fore-grip on it and register it as an AOW).

Time to write your congress critters.

off site link:
https://www.tacticalshit.com/pistol-arm-brace-ban-coming-from-doj-tomorrow-read-leaked-docs/

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[magnut]

Ok... so I was told that there are only two approved braces.... sig something and another one. Problem ATF has is that all these other manufacturers are putting out extendable and folding braces trying to skirt the law. They view it as a bunch of opportunists trying to scam. The two approved braces they dont have a problem with. That is what was relayed to me.

 

[CamoDeafie]

The leaked document has no force of law in there, and its to set up for a bunch of objectively subjective "guidelines" for the upcoming Federal Laws that Biden/Harris/Democrats are probably printing up

 

[ajole]

What braces? I don't have any braces.

 

[Rabidwookie]

Th

According to several sites now, leaded BATFE (ATF) documents show the Bureau intends to issue a new ruling on Pistol Braces which will "redefine" most guns with them attached as Short Barreled Rifles (SBR). You can either destroy your brace or register your gun as a SBR (or put a fore-grip on it and register it as an AOW).

Time to write your congress critters.

off site link:
https://www.tacticalshit.com/pistol-arm-brace-ban-coming-from-doj-tomorrow-read-leaked-docs/

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Thats gonna piss off ALOT of people.

 

[magnut]

Th

Thats gonna piss off ALOT of people.

You could always take the stance many in the gun community did on bumpstocks "I got no use for them...cant hit anything" etc.

Instead it will be... "I got no use for a brace or SBR".... "If I need a rifle I will just get a real one" etc. etc.

A good chance all these little workarounds are going to get delt with now. I wouldnt tell folks not to get braces... just might want to stay away from extended and foldable ones. Maybe stick to the ATF approved braces. Or.... people can just not comply. Decisions... decisions. I dont own one but an actual brace would help on a few of my pistols.

Kind of curious how all this shockwave stuff is going to get handled as well. Then you have red flag stuff coming. All kinds of possibilities with red flags. Even hostile posts on a forum...of any kind could be an issue. Get into a heated arguement on a car forum.... somebody rats on you etc. ATF is going to be busy.

 

[Not2ManyGuns]

Here is the reason the ATF is setting up the biggest gun registration in U.S. history - pistol braces.

Beto O'Rourke has been working with former Attorney General Eric Holder on a clandestine operation to again blame American firearm license dealers for selling arms illegally to citizens of a foreign country. Both O'Roouke and Holder had foreknowledge that there was no possibility that Biden would lose the presidential election no matter what. Apparently, last year Holder orchestrated shipments to Munchkin Country in the Merry O'Land of Oz. The Munchkins were willing purchasers of massive amounts of these short barrel pistol braced weapons because, to them, the weapons are big enough to be considered as full-sized rifles to be used in their war against the Wicked-Witch-of-the-Far-East. The actual sale was arranged by Hunter Biden and China Joe has stated that he has no knowledge of his son's business dealings.

Now that the election is over, Biden will assign Beto O'Rourke the job of solving their gun problem by blaming American firearm dealers for illegal nefarious activities; thereby, using that rationality to convince the U.S. Congress do away with the Second Amendment.

In case the reader didn't recognize it, this is a parody to lampoon Democrats because it's not far from the truth that the left will use any means necessary to transform America. Why do they want this? It's because they have been given over to a reprobate mind and are unable to think rationally.

 

[Dragonbreath]

To be clear, I am not for any increase in ATF regulations. I would be all for repealing the NFA all together.
When I first saw a bump stock my reaction was “ that is going to be banned”. It was just too close to a full auto gun to be left alone.
Honestly, my feelings about pistol braces are pretty much the same. Pistol braces look like a stock, and the way a large majority of people use them. They function like a stock.
“If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck......”

But I will say that I expected a move on binary triggers before pistol braces. I don’t know why Though.

 

[magnut]

To be clear, I am not for any increase in ATF regulations. I would be all for repealing the NFA all together.
When I first saw a bump stock my reaction was " that is going to be banned". It was just too close to a full auto gun to be left alone.
Honestly, my feelings about pistol braces are pretty much the same. Pistol braces look like a stock, and the way a large majority of people use them. They function like a stock.
"If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck......"

But I will say that I expected a move on binary triggers before pistol braces. I don't know why Though.

They will just keep chipping and chipping away as long as they are allowed. Its not even an ATF thing as much as it is an administration thing.

 

[Rabidwookie]

You could always take the stance many in the gun community did on bumpstocks "I got no use for them...cant hit anything" etc.

Instead it will be... "I got no use for a brace or SBR".... "If I need a rifle I will just get a real one" etc. etc.

A good chance all these little workarounds are going to get delt with now. I wouldnt tell folks not to get braces... just might want to stay away from extended and foldable ones. Maybe stick to the ATF approved braces. Or.... people can just not comply. Decisions... decisions. I dont own one but an actual brace would help on a few of my pistols.

Kind of curious how all this shockwave stuff is going to get handled as well. Then you have red flag stuff coming. All kinds of possibilities with red flags. Even hostile posts on a forum...of any kind could be an issue. Get into a heated arguement on a car forum.... somebody rats on you etc. ATF is going to be busy.

Yeah. My step son's one of the ones that'll be pissed. He finished an AR pistol build last week, and im pretty sure he may have used a folding brace. We've both been busy as hell, so I haven't had a chance to get a look at it yet.

 

[Rabidwookie]

Here is the reason the ATF is setting up the biggest gun registration in U.S. history - pistol braces.

Beto O'Rourke has been working with former Attorney General Eric Holder on a clandestine operation to again blame American firearm license dealers for selling arms illegally to citizens of a foreign country. Both O'Roouke and Holder had foreknowledge that there was no possibility that Biden would lose the presidential election no matter what. Apparently, last year Holder orchestrated shipments to Munchkin Country in the Merry O'Land of Oz. The Munchkins were willing purchasers of massive amounts of these short barrel pistol braced weapons because, to them, the weapons are small enough to considered as full-sized rifles to be used in their war against the Wicked-Witch-of-the-Far-East. The actual sale was arranged by Hunter Biden and China Joe has stated that he has no knowledge of his son's business dealings.

Now that the election is over, Biden will assign Beto O'Rourke the job of solving their gun problem by blaming American firearm dealers for illegal nefarious activities; thereby, using that rationality to convince the U.S. Congress do away with the Second Amendment.

In case the reader didn't recognize it, this is a parody to lampoon Democrats because it's not far from the truth that the left will use any means necessary to transform America. Why do they want this? It's because they have been given over a reprobate mind and are unable to think rationally.

Pretty accurate as far as their mentality. Don't forget the low yield nuclear, heat seeking ammunition with a range of 2 gazillion miles, that also turns corners and makes donuts...

 

[magnut]

Yeah. My step son's one of the ones that'll be pissed. He finished an AR pistol build last week, and im pretty sure he may have used a folding brace. We've both been busy as hell, so I haven't had a chance to get a look at it yet.

Yeah but that was just a Nerf gun.... Your son showed it to me. The ATF pistol brace thingy doesnt apply to Nerf builds or even BB guns. In fact your son told me he doesnt even really like guns..... said he wanted to be a buddist monk.

 

[magnut]

Pretty accurate as far as their mentality. Don't forget the low yield nuclear, heat seeking ammunition with a range of 2 gazillion miles, that also turns corners and makes donuts...

Its just a means to an end. It doesnt have to make sense. In the larger plan it all makes sense. So argueing with them about details and hypocrisy is just a waste of time. They are laughing their tails off at gun owners while they bicker about little factoids. Then they label gun owners as hostile and non "reasonable". Its a trap and it works every single time on a multitude of issues. Their goal is power "by any means necessary" not whats right or whats wrong.

 

[Rabidwookie]

Yeah but that was just a Nerf gun.... Your son showed it to me. The ATF pistol brace thingy doesnt apply to Nerf builds or even BB guns. In fact your son told me he doesnt even really like guns..... said he wanted to be a buddist monk.

:lol: Only a couple of problems with that. Muzzle brake he used, was one of mine (not Nerf caliber), he has almost as many guns as i do, and he ain't big on Buddists. He's more Episcopalian than anything else.

 

[Rabidwookie]

Its just a means to an end. It doesnt have to make sense. In the larger plan it all makes sense. So argueing with them about details and hypocrisy is just a waste of time. They are laughing their tails off at gun owners while they bicker about little factoids. Then they label gun owners as hostile and non "reasonable". Its a trap and it works every single time on a multitude of issues. Their goal is power "by any means necessary" not whats right or whats wrong.

Sadly, you're pretty much spot on. Too bad they ain't got the sense to just leave people alone.

 

[magnut]

Sadly, you're pretty much spot on. Too bad they ain't got the sense to just leave people alone.

I agree... It goes against everything they believe though....power at all costs. There is no coexhisting with communists....never has been. They were all just underground putting the pieces and key players in position.

You know all this already though so dont take it as condescending. You would be amazed how many people I have tried to explain this to through the years....I try to explain to them how they think and function etc. After they ask me "what is communism?". Grown adult men... even pretty smart people. I dont get mad... I get kind of sad.

Apologies to the OP for going off topic a little. I will try and keep it ATF related in my posts from here out.

We are in for a real bloodbath if this hornets nest gets kicked over. A lot of this is going to come down to your local sherriffs. I can tell you that the ATF from what I can tell ....are ticked that some of these brace makers are taking it upon themselves to put out these brace collapsable stock hybrids without getting the OK by the ATF.... but they are not wanting this new administration to push this to confiscation levels. It puts them in a dangerous position against law abiding gun owners.

ATF desperately needs a better/new and revamped PR strategy. This traditional approach of vague laws/rules with hardly any communication with the gun community is going to bite them in the rear and start another Waco IMO. There is so much misinformation around the net about the ATF I would not be supprised if it was being instigated by anti gun organization communist front groups. They have already been doing it with traditional LE.

 

[Visper]

From a lot of the stuff I have read, the ATF being the compassionate alphabet agency they are, will be offering free tax stamps for all the braced pistols. Everyone will have a grace period to register them.

I know people on reddit are so excited to get a free tax stamp...

Now is it me or would you be an absolute fool to do this? I think what they are saying without saying is there is no way for them to track the numbers of them that are out there so they're going to let the public do it for them.

Now if I had a true SBR I would definitely go the NFA route, even though I believe it's bullcrap, it is the law. I also understand some people may have gone the pistol route with brace to skirt said law.

It may just come down to usage. If you have a brace, non adjustable or folding with a red dot on it, its a pistol. If you have a telescoping brace with an optic with eye relief, that means you have to shoulder it. It comes down to intent.

IF they redefine the "rules" based on that, I would be fine with it - I guess... even though I still think the NFA should just go away along with the ATF...

You could just remove the brace and have the padded buffer tube like pistols use to have and all is good. There are still ways to legally keep your pistol and not be a felon if it comes to that.

 

[lklawson]

From a lot of the stuff I have read, the ATF being the compassionate alphabet agency they are, will be offering free tax stamps for all the braced pistols. Everyone will have a grace period to register them.

I know people on reddit are so excited to get a free tax stamp...

Now is it me or would you be an absolute fool to do this?

No. It makes a lot of sense for some people.

The truth is that many people bought a pistol brace AR because it is a legal way to have an almost-SBR, particularly after the ATF re-ruled that 'incidentally' shouldering it didn't "make or remake, design or redesign" it as an SBR. So for many, it's an affordable and legal way to have nearly an SBR. But pistol braces usually make sucky stocks. They are less comfortable to 'incidentally' shoulder and usually aren't adjustable for length of pull. They also must avoid putting a vertical fore-grip on the pistol, which some find more comfortable or easier to shoot. If someone could get a "free tax stamp" then they could chuck the pistol brace in the trash (or make a book shelf out of it or something) and put a real AR stock on the pistol and add a vertical foregrip, turning it into a SBR. ...which is what they would have preferred in the first place but settled for the pistol brace because of cost.

So, while it is true that many people wanted an SBR without the "registration," it is also true that many people wanted an SBR without the 9 month wait and $200 mother-may-I permission slip. For the latter group, it makes sense.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Visper]

No. It makes a lot of sense for some people.

The truth is that many people bought a pistol brace AR because it is a legal way to have an almost-SBR, particularly after the ATF re-ruled that 'incidentally' shouldering it didn't "make or remake, design or redesign" it as an SBR. So for many, it's an affordable and legal way to have nearly an SBR. But pistol braces usually make sucky stocks. They are less comfortable to 'incidentally' shoulder and usually aren't adjustable for length of pull. They also must avoid putting a vertical fore-grip on the pistol, which some find more comfortable or easier to shoot. If someone could get a "free tax stamp" then they could chuck the pistol brace in the trash (or make a book shelf out of it or something) and put a real AR stock on the pistol and add a vertical foregrip, turning it into a SBR. ...which is what they would have preferred in the first place but settled for the pistol brace because of cost.

So, while it is true that many people wanted an SBR without the "registration," it is also true that many people wanted an SBR without the 9 month wait and $200 mother-may-I permission slip. For the latter group, it makes sense.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Cost is only a few hundred, I know for some that is a lot I guess, but in the grand scheme not really. At least to me - its the fact that it's basically "registered" and I have a problem with gun registration lol. By them offering a "free" tax stamp, they are getting a shit ton of guns registered without looking like they are forcefully getting them registered...

The only NFA item I have and of course the corresponding tax stamp, is my suppressor. I have toyed with the idea of getting an SBR, but never really jumped on that train, due to the fact that I hate having to register a firearm, which as we all know is unconstitutional.

Yes, I know, they have gun registries all over the US, they just don't call them "registries" which is a different discussion all together...

I also know that if you have purchased your firearms legally - they still kinda know what you have from 4473 or via your credit card - no registry needed...

I wouldn't know, but I would think the pistol braces aren't as comfortable as a real stock or provide the same feel. Aren't they soft and pliable, to fit around your forearm?

 

[bumthum]

Well, for a lot of people, a braced pistol IS a practical firearm for certain situations (home defense and truck/trunk gun come to mind). A 9mm, braced AR or AK could make an excellent home defense firearm and whether the brace is used correctly or not, it would make an effective tool for people who can't wield a full-sized rifle, or large pistol effectively otherwise. I agree with many that a <10inch 5.56 AR is nothing more than a noisy distraction, but there are a lot of braced pistol options out there that really are more effective firearms with practical uses. The approach taken by the ATF is simply one of jamming a stick into a hornet nest for the sake of doing it. Yes, some manufacturers are obviously by-passing the unconstitutional NFA, so identify those products and have them removed from the market. Don't put out a non-binding letter of intention that says, "Register your firearm pre-emptively, or submit each individual weapon you own with a brace to ATF for determination, or take the brace off the weapon." ATF can look at the brace options on the market and determine what they will and will not allow... as others have said, they are just trolling at this point.

There is some speculation that certain high rollers at ATF are also trying to win favor with the likely incoming administration... If true, that's even more sick than being arbitrary. Placing this kind of burden and possible state sanction on otherwise law abiding people, for the sake of personal career advancement, is the very thing that makes people distrust their own government and its motives. They should try applying the law, as it is written, in a manner that is consistent with the best interests of the effected population. There has got to be a crime that produced a real-world victim that they could be investigating instead.