Limp Wristing?

Discussion in 'Vintage Topic Archive (Sept - 2009)' started by Ironbutt1345, Feb 3, 2008.

  1. Ironbutt1345

    Ironbutt1345 Guest

    This topic may have been addressed in another thread, but I couldn't find it, so if so, I apologize. I guess maybe it has something to do with the "blow back" design, but could someone explain this "limp wristing" to me? I don't understand how your grip "firmness" can affect how the gun loads, feeds, and ejects. Sorry for the dumb noob question, just trying to get the facts! Thanks in advance, I know I'll get good info! :D
     
  2. Francis1959

    Francis1959 Member

    3
    0
    What I am about to reply, will with no doubt be commented on.....
    Limpwristing is way over rated. I have wondered what effect NOT having a firm grip on a blow-back vs. a gas operated 45 acp is. A while back I took my 1911a1 and my Hi-point 45 to the range. I am a fairly big guy, and tend to actually hold the weapon too tightly, (causing accuraccy issues, but that is another topic). Well I lossened my grip. Not enough to cause a danger or hazard, but bit by bit. Tried both weapons.
    No differences. My Hi-point cycled fine, as did the 1911a1. I got to the point where I did not want to hold them any looser for fear of the escaping my grasp. (Safety first)
    My belief is (and for the sake of those who will undoubtably have an agumentative stand on my reply, I say it is MY opinion), I believe that if the weapon is feeding correctly, unless you literally drop it, or it flys our of your hand it will cycle as advertised. Just have afirm grip. BE IN CONTROL OF THE FIREARM, and all will be well.
     

  3. NOT being a wisea$$ here--do you actually have a gas operated .45?

    If so, please start a thread about it!
    If you just mistyped, ignore me and return to your previously interrupted discussion.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. From what I've gathered, it has to do with absorbing recoil... I'll leave it to the more experienced members here to explain how it actually affects FTF/FTE etc. Mostly a gas-operated user myself, so not so up to date on the blowback mechanics.
     
  5. 1motion

    1motion Guest

    while im sure it can be a problem i think it gets blamed for a lot of other problems... like people just plain not knowing proper shooting technique, bad mags, dirty gun... you name it

    i live in nebraska, it gets pretty damn cold here but ive still been shooting, and even in 8 degree weather i didnt have any problems "limp wristing" and im 6'1" 150lbs, ive never been confused for a linebacker and my .45 keeps on tickin no matter whos behind the trigger
     
  6. Wikipedia seems to think it is a real problem

    Limp wristing
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Limp wristing is a term used to describe a phenomenon commonly encountered by semiautomatic pistol shooters, where the shooter's grip is not firm enough to hold the frame of the pistol steady while the bolt or slide of the pistol cycles. This condition often results in a failure to complete the operating cycle, called a jam. Rifles and shotguns, if fired without the stock in the shoulder, may also be prone to limp wristing.





    [edit] Overview of the operating cycle
    The cycling of any type of semiautomatic firearm can be broken down into two phases; the first is the rearward motion of the bolt or slide (hereafter referred to only as slide, which is the most common form in pistols), the second is the forward motion of the slide. The rearward motion of the slide is initiated by the force of firing, and continues using the slide's inertia. While the slide moves rearwards, a spring, called the recoil spring, is compressed, absorbing the energy of the slide while slowing it down. During this phase the fired cartridge case is extracted from the barrel and ejected. When the slide is fully to the rear, it is stopped by the fully compressed recoil spring. The spring then pushes the slide forward, stripping a new cartridge from the magazine and pushing it into the chamber. The firearm is then ready to fire the next round.


    [edit] How limp wristing can cause a failure to cycle
    Depending on the operating mechanism, there are a number of places that limp wristing can cause a failure to cycle. Recoil operated firearms are more susceptible to failure than blowback and gas-operated firearms, and lightweight polymer framed handguns are more susceptible than heavy steel framed handguns.

    In blowback and gas operated firearms, the slide reacts against the frame pushing the frame forward slightly against the recoil of the bullet leaving. In recoil operated firearms, the slide reacts against the bullet, and the frame is under no force at the time of firing. As the slide begins to recoil to the rear some of that energy is transmitted to the frame through the locking mechanism (in locked breech designs) and the recoil spring. This transmitted energy accelerates the frame to the rear as well. If the frame is not sufficiently restrained by its mass and the shooter's grip, the frame will "catch up" to the slide, and the recoil spring will not be fully compressed, and the slide will return forward under less than the designed force.

    One common result of limp wristing is a failure to eject, as the slide will be moving too slowly at the point where the ejector is activated. The slow moving case will be caught as the slide closes, resulting in a stovepipe jam. The other common result of limp wristing is a failure to return to battery; the slide will be moving too slowly to move the new cartridge fully into the chamber, so the slide will stop partially open. The least common form of failure is a failure to feed, where the slide returns to battery on an empty chamber, because the slide moved back just far enough to eject the fired cartridge, but not enough to strip the next round from the magazine.


    [edit] How to address limp wristing
    As the name suggests, the problem occurs most often with shooters who have a loose grip. A firm, two handed grip will often solve the problem. Some shooters, however, just lack the strength for such a firm grip, and in that case there are two avenues that can be explored: changing the firearm, or changing the ammunition.

    The simplest way to avoid limp wristing is to use a manually cycled firearm action, such as a revolver. Revolvers are also more reliable and simpler to operate than semiautomatic pistols, and are a good choice for shooters who have difficulty with semiautomatic designs. The other alternative is to pick a firearm whose frame is heavier in relation to its slide. Polymer framed hanguns have the lightest frames, and as the frame is flexible, it absorbs more energy than metal frames. Aluminium and titanium alloys are slightly heavier and much stiffer than the polymers, and steel is the heaviest frame material generally used. Full sized frames are also heavier than compact frames. The heavier frames will have more inertia, and will rely less on the shooter's grip strength to hold the frame still.

    The other approach is to alter the ammunition used. Low velocity, light bullet loads such as those used in target shooting have the least energy available to operate the action, and thus are the most sensitive to limp wristing. A heavier or faster bullet will help. Accurate Powder did tests of various powder types in Glock and Sig-Sauer handguns, and determined that fast burning powders caused failures to increase, and that medium and slow burning powders (of the range suitable for the cartridge) gave the best reliability. Limp wristing would magnify these changes, so fast powders should be avoided.
     
  7. One of my instructors had a Berreta that he could limp wrist on command to demonstrate.

    Great info Mr. Waltham!
     
  8. Ironbutt1345

    Ironbutt1345 Guest

    Thank you, that explained it very well. I knew I could count on you guys (and/or girls!)
     
  9. pills

    pills Guest

    My wife limp wristing is what first got me into hi-points. She can shoot a C9 but I can't get her to shoot any others.

    Yes she still limp wrists some but I guess the HP is more tolerant than others.
     
  10. A man that can jam his pistol on command would be something to see!
     
  11. I'll be honest.....I THOUGHT I had control of My .45, but after reading more on the thread (I already mentioned all of this :roll: in the Other thread) I tried the weapon once again with a "firm" grip and shot two mags with no problem. I guess I could have tried firing it again this past weekend just to somewhat confirm that's what it was, BUT damn, I had to go out and buy that C9 and shoot that instead :wink: !
     
  12. Thanks Newskate, like the old saying goes, even a blind squirrel finds an acorn every now and then ;)
     
  13. When I purchase my C9 in March 06 I had some issues with limp wristing because at the time I had a pinched nerve in my cervical spine that effected my grip/arm strength. After I recovered from surgery, and got back to shooting, I never had another problem with limp wristing the C9 or my other hand guns.
     
  14. I didn't have a problem limpwristing with the c9, but initally did with the .45. As someone at the range told me, "Hang on that sucker!" Once I got the hang of the grip I don't do that anymore.
     
  15. elguapo

    elguapo Guest

    I can only say this: When it fails to cycle, CYCLE it again and fast!!!"
    I went shooting in Vegas with Primal, and I had that exact problem with good ammo on my RIA1911, and to make sure the next shot went off: I cycled the next round up.


    Sometimes it is NOT the weapons fault.