[lklawson]

Gotta start getting EQ for my new range toy.

I've been lurking the FiveseveNForum and it looks like the general feel is that Lee Precision was making a functional die set but changed something and now isn't. RCBS dies are 50/50 hit-or-miss. Hornady seems to get good marks and the custom die makers CH4D get top grade. I'm looking seriously at the Hornady but I've also by eyeballing the Lyman dies. I only see one user mention that he's using it, but he likes it. "BUFFMAN" has posted a lot of YooToob content on the 5.7 which seems to pass community muster so I guess he speaks with some authority. Looks like "panzier"/Elite Ammunition, another accepted authority on that board, hasn't tried it.

Any experience here using Lyman dies?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

Sorry.
Only have experience using Lee Precision dies and equipment.
I started out with the Lee Load-all for shotshells and moved up to a Lee Progressive for pistol and rifle.

So, no help.

Rerun

The current consensus, from what I can tell, among the 5.7x28 reloading community is that the first design of the Lee dies was fine. Then Lee redesigned it for unknown reasons and the current 5.7x28 dies from them aren't dependable.

That's why I'm looking at Lyman dies.

 

[lklawson]

Orrrr......stay with me here......you can just get the dies that are available, and that work, so you don't have to wait 3 years for someone to decide to fix what they screwed up?

They all have great customer service, and if ANY round might need some "better" quality dies, it might be 5.7.

I've had really good experiences with Lee but there have been an instance or two where the product was messed up. Lee resolved the issue fast. But you are right that 5.7x28 is finicky enough as it stands that I want to be careful about it. It's not a .223 die.

I mean...given the cost of the ammo, even a set of the most expensive dies would be offset pretty quickly.

You ain't just whistle'n Dixie! When I first started looking into it I knew it was a more expensive round. I was figuring that it would probably be in line with 5.56, more or less, because of common components, etc. Turns out that it's more in line with .308 ammo! That nearly put me off of it right there. Paying rifle ammo prices for pistol ammo?!?! But then I realized that I was happily considering the Ruger SFAR in .308 and wasn't upset about ammo costs. Once that realization hit me, I stopped worrying so much about the 100% fact that 5.7 ammo is that much more expensive than, say, 9mm or something. Lowest costs for factory new 5.7 is still less than .44 Mag or .45 Colt. 'Sides, reloading may be able to take it down to .380 costs.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

Just broke out the ‘ole reloading calculator. Using data from Hodgdon and figuring on 40 grain Hornady V-Max you can reload 1 round of 5.7x28 for .55 cents. Assuming you discount any cost for brass. The ammo in the @ajole shared costs .91 cents for 1 round. A savings of .36 cents per round. A set of Hornady New Dimension dies cost $60. Therefore the ROI for the dies is met with the loading of 167 rounds. Again that’s taking into account the Kirk only needs the dies, I am pretty sure he has everything else he needs.

I'm not sure I have the appropriate powder and I know I don't have anything in .223 lighter than 55 gr. But those are consumables and I might be able to find a load for powder that I already have.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

Hodgdon says AA #5 is good, I just happened to have some on hand. It is out of stock, but they say Ramshot True Blue is a good powder too. And it is in stock. Just have to find a shop that Carrie’s it.

Printed manual? All I see on their online data is No. 5, No. 7, and True Blue.

You can save another .12 or .14 cents per round by using 22 Hornet bullets. I figured they would not fee, but they are in the load data as a component.

The 40 gr. Sierra?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

I did find this article with a number of developed loads, min/max, which the author says have been pressure tested in lab at around 40K to 45K.

Off site PDF (you have been warned):

https://loaddata.com/articles/pdf/ld-17%20pearce%20lr1.pdf

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

No. 5 and No. 7 are now owned by Hodgdon, but are branded Accurate Powder, hence AA

Ah. I misunderstood the ref. Sorry. Thanks for the clarification.

Peace favor your sword (mobile)

 

[lklawson]

I bet the V-Max 40 would feed, but they run closer to $20-$25/100.

It is in the Hodgdon data. COL of 1.580.

But hey, that polymer tip will surely aid in slipping the bullet through armor, right?🤣

Perfectly logical.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

Surprisingly I get that question a lot.

I have had several people ask me what would happen if I grabbed a Vmax mag instead of a FAFO mag. I try to explain to the delicate ones how frangible varmint ammo works and that I am aware of the fact that a frangible round isn't going to penetrate anything other than maybe soft armor and I'm okay with that because I was trained to aim for faces and joint spaces on enemies wearing body armor.

For the other folks I just shrug and say, turn you in to a glitter bomb for the coroner...

Turns a groundhog to pink mist at 22 Hornet velocity. Doubt it will penetrate much of anything.

BUFFMAN and some others have done tests with soft panels. Poly tipped 5.7 at MV of somewhere around 1600 or 1700-ish (IMS) will almost always penetrate Level II and some of the loads will often penetrate Level IIIA, usually at a MV north of 1700. While not poly tipped, the factory loaded Speer 40gr. Gold Dot 5.7 ammo has been shown to penetrate IIIA.

As far as I know, no 5.7 ammo will penetrate Level III or IV / plate.

So, yes, 35gr. and 40gr. V-Max might penetrate soft armor depending on the rating, manufacturing method, and, most importantly, velocity. The closer you can push it to 2K the more it's going to reliably penetrate IIIA.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

P.S.,

I'm keen to try it with repoduction DORON style plates. I suspect that it would stop the varmint style and expanding bullets but not the solid or monolithic bullets.

OTOH, I'd have to fab the DORON myself and that sounds like too much aggravation.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

I checked Olde English yesterday. They had about 10 one-lb. containers of No. 7 and around 8 of No. 5. No True Blue, however. Decent stock of Hornady bullets but almost no Speer, and nothing else.

Peace favor your sword (mobile)

 

[lklawson]

For self defense I look at Lehigh defense or cutting edge bullets.

I imagine that the 32 and 45 gr. offerings might be appropriate but I didn't see load data for those so it would all be experimental. And 5.7x28 is finicky enough that I'm not sure how much I'd want to experiment.

Maybe there's load data for 'em somewhere.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

Have you looked at Load Data.com?

I admit, I haven't.

Peace favor your sword (mobile)

 

[lklawson]

After reading this thread I'm leaving this forum,

No offense, but I didn't know you were here. Doesn't look like you participated much.

some of you talk about piercing body armor

and?

varmints don't wear body armor

Are you sure, Elmer? Who knows what that wascally wabbit will do next!

and most of you old bastards will never be in a shit hits the fan situation and survive let alone have the balls or physical condition to survive

and?

Adios, Nick

<insert something about a door and a backside here>

 

[lklawson]

When I get around to buying reloading gear for this, I'm leaning toward Hornady, I'm planning on buying the Lee Case Length Gauge & Shell Holder set* because I've got the Lee cutting stud and have been using that system successfully for everything else. But I don't know if I need the Factory Crimp Die* or if I should just stick with what the Hornady die will do for me. What do you think?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

*Off site link to referenced item

 

[lklawson]

Have you looked at Load Data.com?

I went ahead and bought a subscription. The 5.7 is just fiddly enough that I want what good data is available.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

I went ahead and bought a subscription. The 5.7 is just fiddly enough that I want what good data is available.

Turns out that they don't have any data for the 5.7 which isn't publicly available. They have the same data which Hodgdon lists, covering #5, #7, and True Blue, and they have the data from the Brian Pearce data set which covers a lot more powders (#5, #7, #9, True Blue, W-N105, Power Pistol, Universal) and one or two more bullets. It's publicly available and Mr. Pearce says that he had the loads pressure tested and has start and max load, COAL, etc. But it's all publicly available and I've downloaded the PDF for his article and Hodgdon has their data online.

For load data which isn't publicly available, I should have bought the Lyman Reloading Manual. Starting at 49th edition, they list data for the 5.7. It includes data for N340, 800X, HS-7, Blue Dot, and I'm not sure what else. I've stumbled across a couple of instances where someone took a pic or video of their Lyman book so I can see some of the load data so I could build loads for those, but I don't think it's the whole section. I should have spent the $30 on Lyman 51, or at least a used Lyman 50.

I guess it doesn't matter anyway because I've decided to use #7 and bought a pound of that from the LGS. There's plenty of load data available for that and I have a good place to start.

Dadgum!, but gearing up to load for 5.7 is turning out to be expensive.
New powder (#7) $40
different (Maker) bullets $50
Hornady dies $70
Lee Case Length Gauge & Shell Holder (because I already have the cutting stud system) $12
Sheridan case gauge $46
====
$218

Of course, if I can get a load that closely replicates the performance of the Speer Gold Dot ammo, that will pay for itself in about 3 boxes of ammo.

And I also bought 250 once fired cases for an extra $50+shipping.

Fortunately, I already have small pistol primers.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

I wasn't aware that all of Pearce's stuff was publicly available

It was one of the first that I found. A google on "reload 5.7x28 pearce" gives the first hit to the full pdf, with the data charts:
(off site link to pdf)

https://loaddata.com/articles/PDF/LD-17%20Pearce%20LR1.pdf

Maybe it was supposed to be hidden or something, but it's not.

nor was i aware Lyman had these listings. I'll be buying that as well. They are the first outside of Western that is listing loads( Western, Accurate, Hodgeon, same thing)

I didn't either.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

I also load for a bunch of different calibers so Load Data.com comes in handy for comparison on powders, bullets, velocity, etc.

I'm one of those guys who does deep dives on anything which could be dangerous (such as reloading), expensive (new guns or cars), or life changing (new job).

Even for some things that are comparatively pedestrian. It took me 2 years to finally decide I needed a chrony and then to buy the sub-$100 model, and I asked advice here, read reviews, etc. When I wanted to reload for .38SPL I bought a bunch of brass from Rach and then spent hours digging through different load data, online sources, and manuals before settling on a load that has the same powder drop and COAL for both the XTP and HC bullets. I spent hours here asking advice, reading reviews, and comparative shopping before buying my first press and setup.

So while I do have access to Load Data.com I'll use it.

BTW I did write to Maker and tell them that I referred you and now a bunch of people on several forums know how you got screwed on shipping and that I don't care if he can't stop UPS from charging what they do, if he wants to stay in business he better warn his customers and /or change shipping options!

Well, I don't want to run a pro-2A small shop out of business. But I also don't want to get hosed on shipping either. I'm hopeful they get it figured out. I'll report here how it shakes out.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

Admittedly, I haven't checked in a while. I got wrapped up making brass and working up loads for my 300 Ham'r for hunting season. It's a Bill Wilson caliber with proprietary rounds that I couldn't get during season so I made some up. I just pulled the trigger on the 51st Lyman book. It should be here Sunday so I'll share when I can.

The 300 Ham'r looks like a really neat cartridge. I bought my 300 BLK before it came out or I would have given it more consideration. That said, last I looked Wilson was the only ones making a barrel for it and, from the price, it must have been dipped in gold or something.

I don't get it. You replicate a cartridge with the ballistics, including all the ballistic limitations (range, drop, etc.) of a 30-30, and then price the barrels as if they're precision long range barrels? That's gotta impact market penetration of what is already a niche cartridge.

I dunno, maybe their prices have change since then or someone else is making barrels now. <shrug> Anyway, it's a neat cartridge. I think @greg_r has one.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk