[greg_r]

All I see on their online data is No. 5, No. 7,

No. 5 and No. 7 are now owned by Hodgdon, but are branded Accurate Powder, hence AA

The 40 gr. Sierra?

I just bought five 100 count boxes of Speer 40 grain Spire Point for use in my 22 Hornet and 22 TCM. Thought it was a good price at $14 per hundred. Here is the page from Midway USA. Like I said, I didn’t think it would feed, but Hodgdon evidently recommends recommends the profile.

Speer Bullets 22 Cal (224 Diameter) 40 Grain Spire Point Box of 100

Speer offers a variety of reloading bullets ideal for hunters, plinkers and varminters. Speer Spire point bullets feature a soft nose that expands...

www.midwayusa.com

 

[lklawson]

No. 5 and No. 7 are now owned by Hodgdon, but are branded Accurate Powder, hence AA

Ah. I misunderstood the ref. Sorry. Thanks for the clarification.

Peace favor your sword (mobile)

 

[ajole]

I bet the V-Max 40 would feed, but they run closer to $20-$25/100.

But hey, that polymer tip will surely aid in slipping the bullet through armor, right?🤣

 

[lklawson]

I bet the V-Max 40 would feed, but they run closer to $20-$25/100.

It is in the Hodgdon data. COL of 1.580.

But hey, that polymer tip will surely aid in slipping the bullet through armor, right?🤣

Perfectly logical.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[RACHGIER]

But hey, that polymer tip will surely aid in slipping the bullet through armor, right?🤣

Surprisingly I get that question a lot.

I have had several people ask me what would happen if I grabbed a Vmax mag instead of a FAFO mag. I try to explain to the delicate ones how frangible varmint ammo works and that I am aware of the fact that a frangible round isn't going to penetrate anything other than maybe soft armor and I'm okay with that because I was trained to aim for faces and joint spaces on enemies wearing body armor.

For the other folks I just shrug and say, turn you in to a glitter bomb for the coroner...

 

[greg_r]

But hey, that polymer tip will surely aid in slipping the bullet through armor, right?

Turns a groundhog to pink mist at 22 Hornet velocity. Doubt it will penetrate much of anything.

 

[greg_r]

Surprisingly I get that question a lot.

I have had several people ask me what would happen if I grabbed a Vmax mag instead of a FAFO mag. I try to explain to the delicate ones how frangible varmint ammo works and that I am aware of the fact that a frangible round isn't going to penetrate anything other than maybe soft armor and I'm okay with that because I was trained to aim for faces and joint spaces on enemies wearing body armor.

For the other folks I just shrug and say, turn you in to a glitter bomb for the coroner...

Guess i should of read all the replies before i opened my mouth

 

[lklawson]

Surprisingly I get that question a lot.

I have had several people ask me what would happen if I grabbed a Vmax mag instead of a FAFO mag. I try to explain to the delicate ones how frangible varmint ammo works and that I am aware of the fact that a frangible round isn't going to penetrate anything other than maybe soft armor and I'm okay with that because I was trained to aim for faces and joint spaces on enemies wearing body armor.

For the other folks I just shrug and say, turn you in to a glitter bomb for the coroner...

Turns a groundhog to pink mist at 22 Hornet velocity. Doubt it will penetrate much of anything.

BUFFMAN and some others have done tests with soft panels. Poly tipped 5.7 at MV of somewhere around 1600 or 1700-ish (IMS) will almost always penetrate Level II and some of the loads will often penetrate Level IIIA, usually at a MV north of 1700. While not poly tipped, the factory loaded Speer 40gr. Gold Dot 5.7 ammo has been shown to penetrate IIIA.

As far as I know, no 5.7 ammo will penetrate Level III or IV / plate.

So, yes, 35gr. and 40gr. V-Max might penetrate soft armor depending on the rating, manufacturing method, and, most importantly, velocity. The closer you can push it to 2K the more it's going to reliably penetrate IIIA.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

P.S.,

I'm keen to try it with repoduction DORON style plates. I suspect that it would stop the varmint style and expanding bullets but not the solid or monolithic bullets.

OTOH, I'd have to fab the DORON myself and that sounds like too much aggravation.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[RACHGIER]

Guess i should of read all the replies before i opened my mouth

BUFFMAN and some others have done tests with soft panels. Poly tipped 5.7 at MV of somewhere around 1600 or 1700-ish (IMS) will almost always penetrate Level II and some of the loads will often penetrate Level IIIA, usually at a MV north of 1700. While not poly tipped, the factory loaded Speer 40gr. Gold Dot 5.7 ammo has been shown to penetrate IIIA.

As far as I know, no 5.7 ammo will penetrate Level III or IV / plate.

So, yes, 35gr. and 40gr. V-Max might penetrate soft armor depending on the rating, manufacturing method, and, most importantly, velocity. The closer you can push it to 2K the more it's going to reliably penetrate IIIA.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

I'm pushing a 53gr Vmax with a 3100fps MV out of a 20" barrel, so it's definitely a YMMV situation on what it will or won't punch through.

 

[greg_r]

So, yes, 35gr. and 40gr. V-Max might penetrate soft armor depending on the rating, manufacturing method, and, most importantly, velocity. The closer you can push it to 2K the more it's going to reliably penetrate IIIA.

Don’t know Kirk. It’s an awful thin jacket on the V-Max bullet. The bullet will almost expand if you drop it on the floor!
Hornady says they have a hollow core too.

a case full of AA1680 will push the 40 grain V-Max out the barrel of my 22 Hornet Handi Rifle at over 2700 fps. I have had that bullet turn to gray puffs when it encounters grass or twigs between it and the target. Actually, that is the point of the bullet, it just does not penetrate even a groundhog. Which is the reason that I use the bullet for varmints. It fragments when it hits something and will not ricochet. I honestly do not think that is the bullet to use if you want to shoot through something.

 

[RACHGIER]

Can't speak to the efficacy of the lighter bullets, but the 53's and 55's?

 

[greg_r]

Can't speak to the efficacy of the lighter bullets, but the 53's and 55's?

I shoot the 53 grain V-Max out of Virdie, which is a 20" DMR that I built in memory of my dad. 3031 gives me just under 3200 fps. (Got to find me another load though, out of 3031 and I replaced it with CFE223.) That bullet behaves just like the Hornet 40 grain. The V-Max bullets are excellent for groundhogs and coyote, which are all we have for varmints around here, unless you count crows. Again, I like them because the bullet goes in but does not come out.

Groundhogs are going to sleep for the winter, I will re-site Virdie with the Sierra 65 grain Game King for larger game this winter. There is a bullet that stays together!

 

[RACHGIER]

I shoot the 53 grain V-Max out of Virdie, which is a 20" DMR that I built in memory of my dad. 3031 gives me just under 3200 fps. (Got to find me another load though, out of 3031 and I replaced it with CFE223.) That bullet behaves just like the Hornet 40 grain. The V-Max bullets are excellent for groundhogs and coyote, which are all we have for varmints around here, unless you count crows. Again, I like them because the bullet goes in but does not come out.

Groundhogs are going to sleep for the winter, I will re-site Virdie with the Sierra 65 grain Game King for larger game this winter. There is a bullet that stays together!

Oh yeah. The Vmax are fantastic for keeping hides clean on fur bearers, but I have had pass-throughs on several yotes and prairie dogs, and once on a fox. Normally I'm pretty good at pinning a shoulder on the runners, but I've had a few blow right through the rib cages and the occasional gut shot that usually brings some viscera along for the ride.

I did tumble a running yote a few years back that spawned the glitter bomb comment. I wanted to see what it did internally and it just souped the heart and lungs. They're like tiny chaff grenades. I found the polymer tip in with the glitter juice as it soaked in to the dirt.

I've listened to guys bragging about taking antelope and deer with them, even though it isn't legal. They call it AR-chery.

I'm not going 2-legged varmint hunting with V-Max on purpose, but you'll still f*** up somebody's day with it if thats what you have. We do kind of qualify as CXP1.5 game... 😉

I'm working on LT30 loads since I'm finally out of Viht.

 

[lklawson]

I checked Olde English yesterday. They had about 10 one-lb. containers of No. 7 and around 8 of No. 5. No True Blue, however. Decent stock of Hornady bullets but almost no Speer, and nothing else.

Peace favor your sword (mobile)

 

[greg_r]

Oh yeah. The Vmax are fantastic for keeping hides clean on fur bearers, but I have had pass-throughs on several yotes and prairie dogs, and once on a fox. Normally I'm pretty good at pinning a shoulder on the runners, but I've had a few blow right through the rib cages and the occasional gut shot that usually brings some viscera along for the ride.

I did tumble a running yote a few years back that spawned the glitter bomb comment. I wanted to see what it did internally and it just souped the heart and lungs. They're like tiny chaff grenades. I found the polymer tip in with the glitter juice as it soaked in to the dirt.

I've listened to guys bragging about taking antelope and deer with them, even though it isn't legal. They call it AR-chery.

I'm not going 2-legged varmint hunting with V-Max on purpose, but you'll still f*** up somebody's day with it if thats what you have. We do kind of qualify as CXP1.5 game... 😉

I'm working on LT30 loads since I'm finally out of Viht.

I don’t ever remember having a pass through with any of the 22 caliber VMAX, although I have had some with the 110 grain .308 vmax out of my 300 BLK. I attribute that to more lead and less velocity in the 30 caliber.

Won’t ever use a 22 caliber VMAH on deer. Slip one in between the ribs and I imagine you will soup the deers innards. Hit a rib and I see a wide shallow wound.

On CPX 1.5 critters I would expect the same. And agree, hit a rib or not, it should take the fight out of said critter.

 

[GrumpyOlMan]

Gotta start getting EQ for my new range toy.

I've been lurking the FiveseveNForum and it looks like the general feel is that Lee Precision was making a functional die set but changed something and now isn't. RCBS dies are 50/50 hit-or-miss. Hornady seems to get good marks and the custom die makers CH4D get top grade. I'm looking seriously at the Hornady but I've also by eyeballing the Lyman dies. I only see one user mention that he's using it, but he likes it. "BUFFMAN" has posted a lot of YooToob content on the 5.7 which seems to pass community muster so I guess he speaks with some authority. Looks like "panzier"/Elite Ammunition, another accepted authority on that board, hasn't tried it.

Any experience here using Lyman dies?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

I load my 5.7 with Hornady dies on a Lee Challenger press. Most of my other handgun rounds are done a Dillon 550 . I also have rcbs and keep dies for 5.7 but got the best results with the Hornady

 

[GrumpyOlMan]

I load my 5.7 with Hornady dies on a Lee Challenger press. Most of my other handgun rounds are done a Dillon 550 . I also have rcbs and keep dies for 5.7 but got the best results with the Hornady

I also just picked up some TUI solid 43 gn. Bullets. I'm going to spray them with Moly to help reduce pressure then set up a "Paul Harrell" meat target to see what they do

 

[RACHGIER]

I don’t ever remember having a pass through with any of the 22 caliber VMAX, although I have had some with the 110 grain .308 vmax out of my 300 BLK. I attribute that to more lead and less velocity in the 30 caliber.

This right here just reminded me that I do have an opinion on the lighter weight v-max, just not in .22. My .17HMR came with about 2,000 17gr V-Max. Mostly Hornady but also in the Fed. Prem. flavor topped with Vmax. I've seen a few pass-throughs there with my kids shooting prairie dogs, but they were also pure gut shots.

And those guys say it drops deer and lopes DRT. I'm not going to verify it, because I like being able to hunt and with my luck I'll be getting glassed down by wildlife the one time I decide to go off rez and do something stupid.

 

[GrumpyOlMan]

BUFFMAN and some others have done tests with soft panels. Poly tipped 5.7 at MV of somewhere around 1600 or 1700-ish (IMS) will almost always penetrate Level II and some of the loads will often penetrate Level IIIA, usually at a MV north of 1700. While not poly tipped, the factory loaded Speer 40gr. Gold Dot 5.7 ammo has been shown to penetrate IIIA. As far as I know, no 5.7 ammo will penetrate Level III or IV / plate. So, yes, 35gr. and 40gr. V-Max might penetrate soft armor depending on the rating, manufacturing method, and, most importantly, velocity. The closer you can push it to 2K the more it's going to reliably penetrate IIIA. Peace favor your sword, Kirk

The 27gn green tip ammo will penetrate level lll body armor. It's very difficult to try and duplicate that performance with hand loads at safe pressure. I'm playing with solid copper bullets from Ft.Scott and a couple others but the known powders are not pushing them fast enough with safe pressure to do the job. The TUI ( tumble on impact) design is interesting.