Loading The .22TCM (and maybe the 5.7x28mm)

Discussion in 'Reloading Room' started by GrumpyOlMan, Apr 10, 2020.

  1. GrumpyOlMan

    GrumpyOlMan Member

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    Well, today I started working up loads for the .22TCM. There are no SAAMI sanctioned loads so I'm starting with Western powder's load guide. I can tell anyone who's thinking about loading this round a couple things: Lee has a better sizing die than Hornaday but Hornaday has a MUCH better seating die as well as a mouth flaring die that is just about a must if you're seating flat based bullets, You also need to chamfer the mouth on these. The design of the case makes it very easy to distort the shoulder which results in an unusable round. Trying to break down mistakes in these is next to impossible from my experience! The press bullet puller can't grab the bullet and an impact puller will break before the bullet comes free most of the time. (if anyone has experience with these and knows of a way to break down mistakes, I'm all ears!). I ain't perfect (close) , so yes I make mistakes. If you try to seat a Hornaday V-max bullet you're probably going to have to cut the tip off to load a safe round that will work in a 1911 magazine. I've found that COL should be around 1.27" if you want to eliminate feed problems and right now I'm using TCM powder with Armscor bullets. I have a bunch of 43gr. Speer hollow points that I would love to load but to get to COL I'd have to seat them pretty deep so I'll have to work on a reduced load since this is a high pressure round with not a lot of room for error. The only good thing (and I may be wrong) is that the RIA pistol is a steel gun opposed to a polymer and I feel safer with reloading that than a $1300 FN 5.7.
     
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  2. bscar

    bscar Supporting Member

    The Ruger 57 is about half the price of the FN
     
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  3. GrumpyOlMan

    GrumpyOlMan Member

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    Yeah and I plan on buying one soon once they become more plentiful, the price will drop even more. Right now the cost of ammo is too high for most people and the round that Speer is coming out with is even more expensive!
    The 5.7 is a very difficult round to reload and dangerous if you don't know what you're doing!
     
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  4. wganz

    wganz Supporting Member

    I must confess on an Easter Sunday morning that I have lusted in my heart for a Ruger 57. :ohno:
     
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  5. GrumpyOlMan

    GrumpyOlMan Member

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    I just broke down and ordered one. I live in a state that limits the mags to 10 rounds so I couldn't pass it up when they notified me they had 'em.
     
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  6. GrumpyOlMan

    GrumpyOlMan Member

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    I also started loading..... VERY carefully for the round. Went to the range today with 4 different loads and nobody died and I'm pretty sure I have all my parts!
     
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  7. GrumpyOlMan

    GrumpyOlMan Member

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    A lot of you-tubers clean their 5.7 brass with lemon shine and/ or Simple Green. I've found after 40 years of reloading that I don't want my brass "too clean" . If you run a progressive press like a Dillon, you're more likely to have sticking problems at the flaring station with new or like new brass. Then there's the problem of removing the coating on 5.7 brass. That seems to be the # 1 issue causing failure to feed/ eject for that cartridge. There's even been blame put on that for catastrophic failure (although I don't know how), I take my once fired 5.7 and put it in a Ziplock, spray it liberally with One Shot and shake it then size and trim my brass BEFORE I clean it. I know reasonable minds will differ on this but out of a little over 5000 rounds I've yet to strip the coating and I'm getting dam near perfect set-back on the shoulder of my cases. I only mildly clean my brass with 3 quarts of water, a shot of Dawn, and a shot glass full of Simple Green Aircraft parts cleaner. That's just to get the excess sizing lube off. I don't worry about how shiny my brass is, I just want it to work!
    I should probably clarify and explain that I don't reload 5.7 on a progressive press. I think every step should be done one at a time since it's one of, if not the most dangerous cartridge to reload! I also weigh every charge and trim every case. 71KmxPT6NAL._AC_SL1500_.jpg There's an article from 2016 by Jarvis inc. That anyone thinking of reloading the 5.7 should read! Lastly I won't reload this cartridge more than 3 times and that's with relatively mild loads using only recommended powder. My two sources for reloading info. are Lyman's 50th edition and Western Powder's free reloading manuals.
     
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  8. greg_r

    greg_r Lifetime Supporter

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    I don’t think that there is any cartridge that is dangerous to reload. There are, however, dangerous people reloading.

    Just because a cartridge demands your attention when reloading it, that does not make the cartridge dangerous. I agree with you that I would not load it on a progressive press. I also would not use an electronic scale. Any small case can suffer a huge pressure spike with a miscue of powder. Trickle up by hand.

    IMHO, one of the most demanding cases to load is the 22 Hornet. The cases are thin and easily buckled. They also will suffer case head separation. The shoulder is ridiculously easy to set back. Pay attention and take it step by step and all is well, don’t and bad things can happen.
     
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  9. GrumpyOlMan

    GrumpyOlMan Member

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    I agree with your statement about dangerous people and I'm not familiar with loading the.22 Hornet but at least there is a wealth of information available on it and it is a SAAMI recognized load. Neither the TCM or 5.7 are. There are only two very limited loading guides for those cartridges that I'm aware of and in the case of 5.7 they differ quite a bit!
    I know that electronic scales can be influenced by florescent lights and a few other things but if you read the warnings and pay attention they are fine to load with just not with an automatic powder drop. That being said I do verify everything with my beam scale from time to time. I worry most about people that are newer to this and get their information from YouTube. IMG_20200517_1708207215.7shoulder movement.jpg There is quite a bit of shoulder movement on these rounds as well and in addition to stripping the critical coating on the case you need to be vigilant about shoulder and base separation. IMG_20200517_1710058645.7 cull.jpg I don't know how well this is showing but it's a typical cull. I MIGHT be able to get one more load out of it but It ain't worth the risk! It's showing signs of rings forming and stress cracks near the neck.
     
  10. greg_r

    greg_r Lifetime Supporter

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    It’s a CIP load.You just got to think like you are across the big pond. I did a quick search and found data from Accurate Powder.

    I have never loaded for the 5.7x28. When the cost of the Ruger 57 comes down I might buy one, just not interested too much in it. It looks like an American upper mated with a Security 9 lower. About the only difference I see is 3 more rounds in the magazine.

    It did interest me as a varmint round. Savage listed it in their Walking Varminter for a year or two. But dropped it. I sort of lost interest when I found its performance to be somewhere between the 22 Magnum and 22 Hornet.

    As to the scale, no doubt an electronic scale is accurate....providing you are willing to spend the green to get a good one. But they are still sensitive to outside influences. When working with a cartridge where you work up loads .1 of a grain, and the difference between a starting load and a KABOOM is only about .6 grains, I just don’t trust the electronic scales. Any good beam scale is accurate to 1/10 of a grain. I will use my Ohaus 10-10-10.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2020
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  11. GrumpyOlMan

    GrumpyOlMan Member

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    Actually .1 is all it takes from what I've read but again without much data to back it up. I think a lot of people load like it's a speed contest, Accurate is one of two tables I found, the other is Lymon's 50th guide. My electric scale is a Gem Pro, the beam is a Hornaday but I think I read somewhere that Ohaus is making a lot of the beam scales for reloading companies and they just throw their name on. Both reloading guides are very limited as far as projectiles go which pretty much makes it a crap shoot when it comes to OAL and pressures, I'm loading 10 different projectiles and started too low on a couple. I actually have a barrel in the freezer right now so I can push a stuck round out without damaging it.
    Still, it beats the alternative!
     
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  12. histed

    histed Supporting Member

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    @GrumpyOlMan - explain why the barrel is the freezer, please. Never heard of this, but it could be useful down the pike.
     
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  13. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

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    Prolly gonna freeze the lead and then heat the barrel slightly, poke the slug out of it with a cleaning rod. We do that on occasion with bearings, learned that thermal trick from a pretty little redhead professor (at trade school) 1/2 my age :p:p:p
     
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  14. GrumpyOlMan

    GrumpyOlMan Member

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    You met her too?
     
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  15. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

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    Yes!

    I'm imagining you will heat the short end while tapping the cleaning rod. Bullet should fall out in a few seconds.
     
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  16. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    I need a detailed article or something for this!

    Heck, write one for HPFF! We're running short on articles right now. I didn't get one posted for this week.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
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  17. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

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    I don't have a stuck bullet in a barrel, Grumpy does...
     
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  18. GrumpyOlMan

    GrumpyOlMan Member

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    Wouldn't be much of an article, Stuck bullet? Put barrel in freezer, remove one day later. Put in padded vise, SLOWLY warm barrel, push out slug toward breech (unless it's all the way down towards muzzle). The end.
     
  19. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    Honestly, this is the first I've ever heard of it. Seriously, write an article. Take pictures.

    And, no, it doesn't have to be "much" of an article. 2-4 paragraphs and photos are more than fine.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kikr
     
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