Loading The .22TCM (and maybe the 5.7x28mm)

Discussion in 'Reloading Room' started by GrumpyOlMan, Apr 10, 2020.

  1. histed

    histed Supporting Member

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    I agree on all points! That's why I asked what I did. Do you use a torch to heat the barrel? Won't it screw up the bluing? Should I try to get lube around the bullet? Shoot, GOM, I always just put a dowel in the barrel and whaled on it with a mallet.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 18, 2020
  2. GrumpyOlMan

    GrumpyOlMan Member

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    Well, I just submitted a long winded article.
    Yes, You can use a torch but very lightly without holding it on the barrel, Patience is key!
     
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  3. histed

    histed Supporting Member

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    I'm SCREWED!!
     
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  4. GrumpyOlMan

    GrumpyOlMan Member

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    Bluing isn't that hard to fix, I'd worry more about messing with the properties of the metal, you should be okay as long as you weren't holding the torch in one spot and turning the barrel cherry red:eek:.
     
  5. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    Heat gun? Hair dryer?

    Peace favor your sword ( mobile)
     
  6. GrumpyOlMan

    GrumpyOlMan Member

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    Yes, hopefully I submitted the article to the right place cause I ain't re- writing it!
     
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  7. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    did you see that there was an article for this in the June/July 2020 Shooting Illustrated?

    Peace favor your sword (mobile)
     
  8. GrumpyOlMan

    GrumpyOlMan Member

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    No I missed that, I tried looking for it but can't locate that issue. What did it say?
     
  9. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    I just skimmed the article but the basics were that the 5.7 is a really really finicky round to reload and it requires a lot of attention to detail. When the polymer coating gets stripped off, apparently, it becomes less reliable in pistols but made less difference to the rifle that he was using.

    Edit:
    I found a link -
    https://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/nra/si_20200607/index.php#/p/Cover1

    Peace favor your sword ( mobile)
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2020
  10. GrumpyOlMan

    GrumpyOlMan Member

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    Ok, thanks.
     
  11. GrumpyOlMan

    GrumpyOlMan Member

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    Had a couple of strange issues the other day, first of all I had two FN SS197 cartridges fizzle in the chamber. When I checked, the entire round was there intact with no primer! I contacted Fiocchi about the issue and that could be a whole another story!
    I also had two rounds that suffered case head separation.... kinda'. these were reloads run out of the Ruger 57. Ran the same loads out of the FN with no issues or pressure signs. seperated 5.7.jpg
     
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  12. histed

    histed Supporting Member

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    GOM - just to clarify - these were FACTORY rounds with no primers?? Please keep this updated. I'm very interested in what Fiocchi has to say
     
  13. GrumpyOlMan

    GrumpyOlMan Member

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    The factory rounds must of had loose primers. I can't think of any other reason there would be some smoke when I pulled the trigger. Appearantly Fiocchi USA is now part of Freedom group where they give people titles for overlapping companies even when they have NO clue what the company that they are the vice president of marketing and sales does! I'll explain later on tonight when I have more time.
     
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  14. GrumpyOlMan

    GrumpyOlMan Member

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    faulty 5.7 round.jpg Anyway, my original customer support form that I filled out didn't allow for pictures so I just sent a description of the problem and let them know I didn't appreciate ammo failures in a very expensive caliber that I use as my EDC!
    The response I got was from the Vice President of Marketing who thought Federal made the ammo and then tried to send me to FN. I told him the box says right on it "loaded by Fiocchi USA" which he still didn't seem to get! I then asked for his direct supervisor at which point our conversation stopped. I looked up the president's name and sent him an email with pictures.
    I got a phone call about an hour later from the plant manager where they actually make the stuff and he seemed genuinely concerned. I guess the contract to make this ammo. is very exclusive and secretive. The GM told me they don't even discuss it in meetings and he wasn't able to expand on that due to NDAs they all have to sign. I explained that the Vice President of Marketing shouldn't have that title if he's clueless about what's going on! (wonder if he's related to Joe Biden?). Apparently they hand titles out like post it notes at the Freedom Group and one person may be wearing several different hats even if they're the wrong size!
     
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  15. GrumpyOlMan

    GrumpyOlMan Member

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    Went to the range on the third to compare loads of the 5.7 against the .22TCM with a chronograph. I ran into some feed issues with the .22TCM (even with factory loads) so I'm holding off on data for that until a couple tools arrive so I can be more consistent. The short version is that the TCM appears to be more powerful than the 5.7x28mm. At the very least it's faster with similar bullets and appears to run at lower pressures.
    Today I'l list some anecdotal loads. (This is a polite way of saying that I have NO way to verify the safety of these loads, they are simply my experience with my guns, powder and loads.) PLEASE be safe, and remember that powder can even change pressure from lot to lot and the 5.7x28mm can go from comfortable to KABOOM in a tenth of a grain!
    5.7 reload bullets.jpg These are the bullets I loaded for the 5.7, please share if you have another that works well for you.
    From left to right:35 gr. Hornady NTX, 35gr. frangible Interceptor, 34gr. Dogtown, 40gr. Hornady V-Max,33gr. Speer Hornet hp, and Speer 43gr. TNT green hp.
    All loads used CCI 500 primers and Shooter's World Auto Pistol Powder with once fired FN cases (don't know who really makes them). All cases trimed to 1.13"
    I used a Competition Electronics Pro Chrono chronograph with Chrony lighting set at approx. 15' from my shooting stance. Shots were fired off hand from a Ruger57 starting with factory loads at a distance of approx. 25' to the backstop. All the loads were pretty accurate at that distance so I didn't bother trying to measure. I will at some point run accuracy comparisons at 50' when I have the range to myself. I plan on going tomorrow to run the NTX rounds and I'll be running the Dogtowns at .1 grain higher as well as the 40gr. V-Max at .05 grains higher. I still have room to play with the 33gr. hornets which are the only round I fire from both calibers. I'll list velocity changes, noticeable accuracy changes and pressure signs as soon as I can. Velocity is the average of a 5 shot string. all speeds are in FPS.
    FN SS197 40gr. V-Max-1,719
    FNSS198 27gr. green tip HP-2,102
    33gr. Hornet,6.2gr. SWAPP,-OAL=1.4"-1,906
    34.gr. Dogtown, 6gr. SWAPP, OAL=1.46-1,880
    35gr. Interceptor, 6gr. SWAPP,-OAL=1.465"-2,034
    40gr. HDY. V-MAX, 5.5gr. SWAPP,-OAL=1.57"-1,904
    43gr. TNT green,5.0gr. SWAPP,-OAL=1.472"-1645

    .22TCM factoty loads:
    40gr.hp-1,885
    39gr.R load( for Glock conversion)-2,021
     
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  16. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    Thanks for the insights. I keep hearing these sort of reports on the fringes of the discussions; The 5.7 is finicky and among the most difficult to reload safely. The .22TCM makes comparable (or better) energy levels and is pretty friendly to the hand-loader.

    So here's my evil plan. Buy a Glock 48 and a bunch of the Shield Arms 15-round mags, then harass Armscor into making a conversion kit for the 48 so I can rock 15 rounds of .22TCM (9r, ims) in a super small, super flat, pistol. ;)

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2020
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  17. GrumpyOlMan

    GrumpyOlMan Member

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    The TCM Tac Ultra is an accurate gun but heavy as hell! You could literally kill someone by throwing it at 'em! The 1911 magazines limit what bullets you can load as well, in fact the factory magazines I have are a pain in the ass. The only rounds that I can fully load a mag with are the "r" ones designed for the Glock conversion which are shorter. Finally the factory powder ( and some of the recommended reloading powder) throws a 2 foot fireball out the end of the barrel. It looks cool at the range but not really practical unless your trying to find your way in the dark. If I had a way to upload a short video, I'd show it.
    It's a shame because I have found a few loads that work really well in the gun. The Glock might be the way to go.
     
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  18. GrumpyOlMan

    GrumpyOlMan Member

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    Well, yesterday at the range provided a few reminders, one very bad result, and a lesson learned. First, I'll be lowering all my above powder charges by .1 grains with the exception of the 33gr. Hornet.
    I ran my 40 gr. V-max again with the exact same charge and got considerably lower velocities. I think this may be due to a low battery in the Chrono. but I'll need to do more testing to verify. The next up was my 35 gr. NTX which is a lead free version of the V-max with a boat tail like the 40gr., for some reason boat tails seem to run at a higher pressure than flat base bullets in both of these pistols. I used the same recipe that I used with True Blue powder before in the round but upped by .05 gr. The result was damage to the Ruger 57 which I'll have to send in and hope can be repaired.
    Finally, I ran the TCM with the 33gr. Hornets and had to push the slide into battery nearly every time. I was getting good groups and a velocity around 2,250FPS. I ran the Spire point 40gr. bullets and had the same problem with the slide but again, good tight groups around 1" at 30ft and velocity of approx. 1,.950FPS except that I'd get the occasional flyer which I think was more me breaking concentration and grip than anything else. I remember having similar problems with my first TCM and was told by Armscor that you need to run 500 to 1000 rounds through the gun to break it in and in fact, the problem lessened as I shot the gun more so we'll see what happens.
     
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  19. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    Gah! That's terrible! I'm sorry about the damage to your Ruger. Ruger has a reputation for over-engineering their guns and making them "stouter" than may be required so that is a scary thing. Ruger also has a pretty good reputation for customer service.

    This just confirms to me that I don't want to screw around with a 5.7 gun. I'm too cheap to shoot nothing but NIB ammo ever and the 5.7 is too touchy about hand-loading for my comfort.

    Maybe Ruger will make a .22TCM version of their Security 9?

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  20. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member