[Literally a Moose]

Just wanted to make everyone aware, if they aren't already, that M*CARBO has issued a recall for their extra power recoil spring and stainless steel guide rods for Hi Point carbines. Apparently Hi Point has been seeing broken breech bolts, likely due to the stainless guide rod and potentially the recoil spring as well.

Unfortunate to hear. Thankfully, in my case I haven't had a chance to fire the gun since I installed the new spring and rod. Guess I get to disassemble the gun again and put the original parts back.

Here's the notice email for the spring (which also addresses the guide rod):

------------------

IMPORTANT RECALL NOTICE FOR ALL HI-POINT CARBINE EXTRA POWER RECOIL SPRINGS PURCHASED FROM M*CARBO BETWEEN 12/08/2019 - 12/07/2020

M*CARBO and Hi-Point have identified that the use of an Extra Power Recoil Spring inside the Hi-Point Carbine can cause damage to the Hi-Point Carbine Breech Bolt, making the firearm inoperable and potentially cause harm to the user.

Hi-Point informed us that they have had to warranty broken breech bolts that they initially determined were the result of the Stainless-Steel Guide Rod used inside the Hi-Point Carbine but also suspected the Extra Power Recoil Spring could have aided in damaging the breech bolt as well.

Hi-Point further explained that the factory plastic guide pin was designed to act as a buffer instead of a guide rod. [The guide rod recall email also notes that "The Stainless-Steel Guide Rod was never designed to operate like a buffer assembly."] The Extra Power Recoil Spring would increase the speed at which the Breech Bolt would return to make contact with the Receiver so while we are at it with recalling the guide rod we want to cover all possibilities.

In order to prevent any issues with your firearm, M*CARBO has voluntarily initiated an Additional Product Recall for both versions of the Hi Point Carbine Extra Power Recoil Spring.

• SKU # 22229222366666.380-9mm-40cal
• SKU # 2222922236666610mm-45

If you are experiencing any issues at all with your Hi Point Carbine, rest assured that Hi Point is still leading the industry with their No-Questions-Asked Lifetime Warranty and they mean it.

STOP USING YOUR HI-POINT CARBINE WITH THE EXTRA POWER RECOIL SPRING. REVERT TO THE FACTORY RECOIL SPRING.

REMEDY/ACTION TO BE TAKEN:

1. Remove the Hi-Point Carbine EXTRA POWER RECOIL SPRING from your firearm and replace it with the Factory Recoil Spring.
   • If you no longer have the Factory Recoil Spring Contact Hi-Point for a factory replacement under their Lifetime Warranty Program. (419)747-9444
2. Click the Link Below for a Pre-Paid Shipping Label to Return the Extra Power Recoil Spring to M*CARBO.

[Link redacted]

1. Once your Return has been received and processed, we will issue a Refund to the Original Card of Purchase in the amount of $9.95.
2. For Assistance Contact M*CARBO Customer Service (727)223-1816 Mon-Friday 9am - 4pm.
3. Email us for a Faster Response: [email protected]

 

[adam01364]

Wonder when M*Carbo will get around to recalling their sear spring?

 

[magnut]

Just wanted to make everyone aware, if they aren't already, that M*CARBO has issued a recall for their extra power recoil spring and stainless steel guide rods for Hi Point carbines. Apparently Hi Point has been seeing broken breech bolts, likely due to the stainless guide rod and potentially the recoil spring as well.

Unfortunate to hear. Thankfully, in my case I haven't had a chance to fire the gun since I installed the new spring and rod. Guess I get to disassemble the gun again and put the original parts back.

Here's the notice email for the spring (which also addresses the guide rod):

------------------

really good of you to make the effort to get out info like this. Good for you.....very thoughtful. I will study up on this. I was not aware people were upping the springs on hi-points. There really should be no point unless you are looking to damage things creat problems. Stronger sear, striker, and magazine springs should be just fine. Recoil springs are kind of a No No. Mcbaro is a good company with really good staff. They should work on a simple buffer for hipoints.

 

[undeRGRound]

Good to know that HP are actually great engineers

 

[adam01364]

Good to know that HP are actually great engineers

Amen. Gosh, who'd a thunk Tom Deeb and Mike Stassell knew WTF they were doing when they designed these firearms?

 

[magnut]

Amen. Gosh, who'd a thunk Tom Deeb and Mike Stassell knew WTF they were doing when they designed these firearms?

They definitely played it safe on the spec side of things. Must be some russian blood in them. Maybe they are distant relatives of Bill Ruger.

 

[moona11]

Wonder when M*Carbo will get around to recalling their sear spring?

Right. And several of us have pointed this issue out earlier. Thats the problem with non trained gunsmiths selling gun parts. Idiots

 

[magnut]

Best to not get carried away and get melodramatic over things like this. They are a good company that stand behind their products. They also are willing to make custom aftermarket parts for firearms most others wont even touch. Its in everyones best interest long term to support these smaller American startups. Everybody has hickups once in a while.

They make a great Keltec p11 trigger BTW. It works in a lot of the clones as well. Not quite as good as the RTK IMO and experience but RTK is out of business and Mcbaro is the only company I know still making a trigger the the classic P11.

 

[moona11]

Best to not get carried away and get melodramatic over things like this. They are a good company that stand behind their products. They also are willing to make custom aftermarket parts for firearms most others wont even touch. Its in everyones best interest long term to support these smaller American startups. Everybody has hickups once in a while.

They make a great Keltec p11 trigger BTW. It works in a lot of the clones as well. Not quite as good as the RTK IMO and experience but RTK is out of business and Mcbaro is the only company I know still making a trigger the the classic P11.

STFU. The company sells parts knowing they can and do cause issues with the safety and function of firearms. While you may have a love affair with shit guns and are used them being shit from the factory. This company is sells crap to people knowing it has a potential to turn your gun into a FA weapon.

 

[Guest]

STFU.
While you may have a love affair with shit guns ...

You could be a bit more polite about it. Rude talk like this used to get people banned just like that in the old HPFF days back when this board used to be really packed.

One wonders why it's so quiet lately with top notch contributors like you guarding the clubhouse here, one would think more noobs would be chomping at the bit to join seeing how friendly and welcoming old timers like you make it.

 

[moona11]

You could be a bit more polite about it. Rude talk like this used to get people banned just like that in the old HPFF days back when this board used to be really packed.

One wonders why it's so quiet lately with top notch contributors like you guarding the clubhouse here, one would think more noobs would be chomping at the bit to join seeing how friendly and welcoming old timers like you make it.

Thanks dad. He chose to comment while being a smart ass. This is the same cry baby that posted after ten years. Then shit on place about people being mean. He can handle it himself or go hide again.
In case you didn't take note he has been here longer than me.

 

[magnut]

My post is not directed at anyone. People are adults and free to say what they want. I speak in generalities. Again... all companies have glitches...even hi-point....even HK. firearms have problems sometimes as well. When a gun has an issue its better to troubleshoot and fix the problem than throw it in the river because it does not meet expectations. I have a few firearms that I have not figured out the solution yet... I dont even blame the gun....I figure its up to me to figure it out. Typically I get there eventually even if I have to make a part from scratch. Firearms are simply machines that either run or must be made to run......not spoiled food to be thrown away.

 

[moona11]

My post is not directed at anyone. People are adults and free to say what they want. I speak in generalities. Again... all companies have glitches...even hi-point....even HK. firearms have problems sometimes as well. When a gun has an issue its better to troubleshoot and fix the problem than throw it in the river because it does not meet expectations. I have a few firearms that I have not figured out the solution yet... I dont even blame the gun....I figure its up to me to figure it out. Typically I get there eventually even if I have to make a part from scratch. Firearms are simply machines that either run or must be made to run......not spoiled food to be thrown away.

Passive-aggressive okay champ.

 

[magnut]

This is for everyone reading....general rule (for myself) whenever I address a certain individual on a post they make I try to quote them in order to eliminate confusion. In cases where someone is rude I typically ignore as its not worth the effort unless I think they are really struggling with a problem...then SOMETIMES (usually not) I will overlook hostile attitudes and foul language...or both

 

[ajole]

The thing is...we’ve been over this ground more than a few times. The FACT is, the M’Carbo spring has LITERALLY made guns go full auto. The factory had it happen to them, too. They ADMIT it happened, it HAS happened...and you still want to say, well....let’s just try it and see.

You do that. But don’t encourage others to do it, it could get someone banned from a range, jailed, or even killed.

That is NOT an acceptable outcome to be encouraging.
So stop encouraging it.

 

[FlashBang]

Simply possessing a device that is known, documented and admitted to cause FA firing could be easily prosecuted under the theory of "constructive intent" by an over zealous BATFE Agent. By the manufacturer publicly stating that they know the issue exists, but continuing to sell it anyway places both them and you squarely into legal liability and responsibility for any and all injuries or violations of the law resulting from it's use. Just because they say they are not responsible does not make it so. Their admitting it happens, their continued selling of it, your knowledge that it happens and your purchase and use of it swing the doors wide open against both parties under the theory of Dolus Eventualis and Res ipsa loquitur.

Based on what I know of their spring and it's issues, I would strongly recommend not purchasing it or using it. In fact, I'd recommend that you do not even possess it.

 

[magnut]

Simply possessing a device that is known, documented and admitted to cause FA firing could be easily prosecuted under the theory of "constructive intent" by an over zealous BATFE Agent. By the manufacturer publicly stating that they know the issue exists, but continuing to sell it anyway places both them and you squarely into legal liability and responsibility for any and all injuries or violations of the law resulting from it's use. Just because they say they are not responsible does not make it so. Their admitting it happens, their continued selling of it, your knowledge that it happens and your purchase and use of it swing the doors wide open against both parties under the theory of Dolus Eventualis and Res ipsa loquitur.

Based on what I know of their spring and it's issues, I would strongly recommend not purchasing it or using it. In fact, I'd recommend that you do not even possess it.

IMO.... I dont think thats really a big thing to worry about as the consumer. McBaro might have something to deal with being that they mention it. I agree dont mess with it but I dont see the ATF showing up at peoples door for a spring that is too light. A runaway does not equate to full auto. Sure you could run into a newbie ATF agent kind of ignorant to firearms or the industry.... been there....but most of those guys that have been around are familiar with this stuff. There are a few Barney Fifes out there that do stupid things when they are new.

Biggest liability for Mcbaro is if a runaway happens and somebody gets hurt. I dont care if they say they are liable or not. Admiting it can happen opens up a whole can of worms. As I have stated I like their products from what I have purchased. They should just pull these until they get it sorted out. I dont want to see any of these small shops get hassled as the overwhelming majority of products are excellent.

It may even just be a cycle time issue. These springs may be fine in something like a 380 carbine but cannot keep up in some of the Higher pressure calibers. I dont doubt Hi-point plays it safe....they always do (which is great BTW). Lots of stuff can come into play with a sear spring not being able to keep up. Increasing the strength is typically safe and even a benefit. Going the other way and things can get touchy.

Its kind of like doing a sear polish job on a firearm to improve the trigger. Its tricky and there is only so much you can do. Competition shooters and custom builders can dial things in more because they tailor springs and sears to specific target load recipes. The guns are exceptional within those parameters but performance can go down when you just start running anything and everything through them.

People just hear "upgrade" so they think it must be better. Its just a modification....could be good...could be bad. It all just depends on the variables involved. If you speed up the cycle time with a stronger recoil spring.... then you slow down the sear.....yeah, overiding that sear and inducing a runaway is completely possible. Thats on reason Wolff gunsprings puts in a new or extra power fireing pin spring whenever you buy a recoil spring kit from them.

McBaro should include a stronger sear spring with the stronger recoil spring they sell. I suspect most people are using both the stronger recoil spring in combination with the weaker sear spring.....which just makes it more likely to cause an issue.

 

[lklawson]

I strongly suspect that M*CARBO's lawyers have told them they're not at a great deal of risk.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[ajole]

A runaway does not equate to full auto.

It does for the 2-4 seconds that it's happening. And what "you" call it has ZERO effect on what happens after you shoot someone, or yourself, or get reported by someone that thinks you are a criminal. If you shoot someone by accident, or if someone DOES investigate just due to the runaway, and the gun "runs away" again...Barney Fife or not....and you're up that proverbial creek.

You: Umm, yeah officer, or ATF dude...I put that spring in, but it's not supposed to be doing that.
ATF dude: Really? It says right here on the makers website that it could do it, and it looks like you may have intentionally installed it to bypass the law.
You: No, I didn't....
ATF dude: Officer, please arrest this idiot:
Officer: Sir, please turn around and place your hand on your head.....

 

[FlashBang]

IMO.... I dont think thats really a big thing to worry about as the consumer. McBaro might have something to deal with being that they mention it. I agree dont mess with it but I dont see the ATF showing up at peoples door for a spring that is too light. A runaway does not equate to full auto. Sure you could run into a newbie ATF agent kind of ignorant to firearms or the industry.... been there....but most of those guys that have been around are familiar with this stuff. There are a few Barney Fifes out there that do stupid things when they are new.

An Agent doesn't need to 'just show up at your door'. If there is an incident involving your firearm, either a FA runaway or an injury, the BATFE is most definitely going to be involved. In that event, your firearm is going to be examined and all the things I stated are going to arise.

If you want to take the chance go for it. My thoughts and remarks stand and are valid and on point.