made in texas

Discussion in 'Gun Gallery' started by Benjamin, Feb 9, 2016.

  1. Benjamin

    Benjamin Member

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    I would love to have one of these. out of my price range.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

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    Is that real Damascus steel, or just etched?
     

  3. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    No. But it might be real Pattern Welded steel. ;)

    Pattern welded has to be acid etched too.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk (feeling pedantic, I guess ;))
     
  4. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

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    NICE, but I would not want to shoot it :(

    I buy shooters, mainly :D
     
  5. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

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    Smart aleck..:p
     
  6. SWAGA

    SWAGA No longer broke... Lifetime Supporter

    Last time I saw anything on TV about Jesse James the bike builder he was in his workshop in Texas doodling with gun parts.
    He's a gun but and owns severely FA if I'm lot mistaken.
    He said he was offered $5000 for a set of steel 1911 grips he made.
    Kinda looked like the ones above. Steel forged and folded by hand like 30 times.
     
  7. Benjamin

    Benjamin Member

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    What is real Damascus steel? [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISSGL4Ns2qw[/ame]
     
  8. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

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    Ooooohhh...!!!!:eek:

    So, according to that expert, for over 2 centuries in writing, and for longer periods by reputation, Damascus was the ONLY term used for "pattern " or "forge" welded steel by anyone in the metals or gun or sword making trades in the West.

    Insisting that pattern welded is anything BUT Damascus steel is not just pedantic, but ignorant....:rofl:

    His words, not mine.;)
     
  9. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    And demonstrably wrong, based on ignorance and misinformation, mostly by Spaniards starting a few centuries back. :)

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  10. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    I've been following this for about 2 decades now. From memory...

    "Damascus Steel" was originally used to describe a specific kind of Crucible Steel which was traded and forged into blades in the area of Damascus. Remaining examples are now generally referred to as "Wootz" and are quite rare and very valuable. Wootz was highly desired for its ability to take and hold a superior cutting edge and renowned for its beauty, which was due to long carbide crystals appearing in a "watering" pattern. Some modern analysis suggest that Wootz superior cutting ability may have been related to the accidental formation of nanofibers, which gave it a microscopic "saw like" structure. The mines used for producing Wootz eventually played out and went dry and, therefore, true Wootz disappeared. However, the desire for the beautiful watering pattern drove blade smiths back to an older technology, likely pioneered by the Norse, but certainly demonstrated masterfully in the Sutton Hoo sword; Pattern Welding laminate. Very soon after the sources of true Wootz, "Damascus," dried up, Pattern Welded blades started being produced in Damascus, Toledo, and other centers of the bladesmiths art. Those being produced in Damascus were still called "Damascus" or "Damascene" mostly as a marketing ploy rather than proof that it was actually Wootz. Turns out that bait & switch and deceptive marketing ploys are ancient, as evidenced by the low quality "+VLFBERHT+" sword ripoffs.

    There have been many attempts to "recreate" Wootz in modern steel, starting in the Victorian era and ongoing up to now. The most interesting and contentious is the recent "Techno-Wootz" where the creator has patented (or trademarked, I forget) his process.

    While Pattern Welding isn't Wootz, in some ways it may be better, particularly with modern steels. When pattern welded steel fails, it tends to "de-lamniate" which generally means it doesn't shatter and explode. It is also possible to get dozens, maybe hundreds, of very specific patterns in the steel which simply aren't possible with carbide "watering." It's also possible to "tailor" the steel recipes more closely to desired purposes. On the other hand, pattern welding takes a much higher skill set than "mere" blade smithing. Welding the wrong steels together could make a result that, while pretty, is unusable or unsafe. It could lead to "Carbon Migration" which makes a sword too soft and unable to be properly hardened. Proper heat treating pattern welded steel is also a bit more challenging than standard, not that a layman like me can tell the difference, but, apparently, it requires the treat to be more controlled which requires a more experienced and practiced eye along with a little bit tighter control of the variables.

    Like I wrote, I've been following this subject for decades. I love the look of pattern welded blades and own several. Lost one of my favorites actually, a daily carry folding stiletto, a couple of years back. Still vexes me to this day. :wah: I have a good half-dozen unhilted pattern welded Bowie Knife blades which I keep intending to mount "when I get around to it."

    I've watched experts argue about it for a very long time, but it's clear that the earliest, and most reliable, usage of the the term "Damascus" specifically referred to Wootz. :)

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  11. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

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    So...essentially, you are saying to take every argument, every bit of logic you use in the clip vs magazine debate regarding why it's ok to call a magazine a clip, due to changes in the language, and reverse it in this instance?

    Nope...not buying it.:D

    Damascus has been used in writing for over two centuries to exclusively mean pattern welded steel, regardless of the steels used to make it, the terminology is used by experts in the industry, including folks like Greener of shotgun fame, not just by laymen.

    If we are now supposed to allow the magazine to be called a clip based on 50 years of misuse, then we must use Damascus interchangeably with pattern welding based on over 200 years of use by the experts, no matter what the modern experts want to do in deconstructing things to make a non-existent distinction into something significant.:rolleyes:

    So, Damascus steel it is.:p
     
  12. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    You'll recall, I'm sure, that I've always argued that "clip" is acceptable slang due to Common Use but also that I always use the term "magazine" or "mag" and (personally) eschew the use of the term "clip."

    I only harass people about Damascus/Wootz when I'm feeling nerdy and, yes, I agree that it is acceptable slang due to the Common Use convention. :)

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  13. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    P.S.,

    Also note that I was harassing YOU about this nerdy subject. Given our history, I knew you wouldn't be offended or particularly upset. :)

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  14. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

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    All good, brother!:p

    Or should I say...Damascus Nazi?

    :rofl:

    BTW...wonder what the Japanese call the metal used in their kitchen knives, that are often called Damascus here in the west?

    Dang it Kirk...you got me LEARNIN' stuff again.:chicken:
     
  15. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

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    I was told that the process of making Damascus (or wtf/e) involved
    hammer forging, and repeated folding to get the "patterns" that we
    see in the finished product.

    Would it not also be true that this is mostly decorative these days,
    and more moderns steels are stronger in most aspects? I'll hang up
    and listen to your answer :p
     
  16. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

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    I have a good buddy, IRL, named Sorrells who is somewhat of an
    expert (to me) on such subjects. Big Deer-Slayer :D
     
  17. FirearmFanatic

    FirearmFanatic "The Enabler!"

    Can you here me now? :rofl:
     
  18. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

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    What a koinky-dink...maybe he's related to the guy in the video Benjamin posted up there?

    :cool:
     
  19. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    Not sure. I know that their sandwich laminate is called San Mai.

    Peace favor your sword (mobile)