Mag safety on c9

Discussion in 'Vintage Topic Archive (Sept - 2009)' started by Joe Sixpack, Jan 23, 2008.

Mag safety?

This poll will close on Feb 7, 2106 at 1:28 AM.
  1. I hate'em, i took mine out

    100.0%
  2. I hate'em, but left mine in.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. I like'em

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. I dont care one way or the other

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Joe Sixpack

    Joe Sixpack Guest

    one of the thing i was really irritated by was the mag safety on the c9, or any gun for that matter.

    I looked in the mag well and noticed a lever inside the mag well.. ah ha!, this has got to be the mag safety!

    so i cocked the gun (empty of course, stuck my paw (well actually just my pinky) and pulled the trigger, click.. yup thats the mag safety.

    so i gots to thinking.. if i could just wedge something under it then i wont have to worry about it anymore.. maybe i can super glue something under it.

    took off the right grip and there it was.. a simple little bar running the length of the grip.

    it comes right out and serves no other function that i can tell.
    put the grip back on no mag safety any more. :wink:

    So i figure a lot of you must have already known or figured this one out.

    so i thought i'd ask.. how many people like mag safeties? and how many people have removed them from their hi-points? im figuring the 40 and 45 are probably the same as the c9.
     
  2. neothespian

    neothespian Member

    4,578
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    I really don't pay them much mind, since most are built because some twit blasted himself or herself.

    As far as modifying a safety, I'd be VERY leery of that. If you end up having to use the weapon in a legal issue, then any lawyer worth his degree is going to jump all over that "Illegally modified" weapon. That and things DO go boom when you least expect it.
     

  3. It doesn't really bother me one way or the other. I know on some guns such as the Hi-Power people say removing the mag safety improves trigger pull. I don't know if that would be true on Hi-Point or not. I dont really see any legal issues since there are other handguns made without the mag safety. But thats just my opinion im not a lawyer or anything. All that being said i haven't removed the mag safety on mine. I think there was a topic on this awhile back and most people said leave well enough alone for legal reasons etc....
     
  4. If it saves one life to have it in there when someone drops their mag and has one in the tube and it doesnt shoot because of the safety, it has payed for their developing and putting it in the pistol.
     
  5. Joe Sixpack

    Joe Sixpack Guest

    it does'nt improve trigger pull..
    the mag safety is very simple it's a bar that blocks the trigger bar and the sear cam from connecting.. when you insert a magazine it pushes against the bar so that it is no longer in the way and the trigger can be pulled..

    the bar just sits between the grip and frame, it's not held down in anyway.

    as for legality it's not required by law to have a mag safety so it's not a illegal mod. (actually it might be a law in cali, not sure but i dont live in cali)

    I suppose it might have saved a life, but short of spontaneous discharge the only way a gun can take a life is if you did'nt follow basic rules of handling.
     
  6. SHOOTER Z

    SHOOTER Z Well-Known Member

    4,094
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    OK IF you remove the safety and are involved in a shooting and the officials take that weapon to the lab they will find out it was modified and you could be held liable!

    It was designed to be there so dont mess around with it! It might just someday save your or some one dear to you life!
     
  7. Joe Sixpack

    Joe Sixpack Guest

    if i someday shoot my self because i took the mag safety out then you can slap a darwin sticker on my butt.

    seriously if a mag safety saves your life then you did'nt follow basic handling rules, someone who does'nt follow those rules religiously can and probably will shoot them selves anyway.

    as for the legality the police will not be stripping the gun for inspection, if it's a illegal weapon (barrel/oa length) thats one thing or if they needed to get a sample to for ballistic test.

    Other wise the gun will simply be cataloged and thrown in a evidence room
    if it's justified you usually will be called to pick the gun up, if the shooting is not justified then well.. you have a lot bigger issues then trying to explain why your gun has no mag safety (again not illegal), since last i checked a mag safety does'nt stop you from actually pulling the trigger when the gun is loaded.

    the mag safety is not a requirement or law (at least not in my state), many guns do not have them.
    infact my two favorite guns taurus and beretta 92 neither have mag safeties, and the taurus is the one i keep loaded for HD.

    no one is aloud to touch my guns without my permission, if they start playing with them anyway then its' outta my hands.

    those of you who think the mag safety is such a miracle life saving device should not keep any guns loaded in the house this includes night stand for bump in the night encounters.

    lack of mag safety does not make the gun inherently unsafe, it boils down to the person handling it more then anything.

    those worried about legal issues should never modify their guns, or even detail strip them, you might also carry ball ammo instead of hallow points im sure by the same token the lawyers will have a field day with these (extra deadly bullets)

    food for thought.
     
  8. SHOOTER Z

    SHOOTER Z Well-Known Member

    4,094
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    I have a friend who used to work for a LEO crime lab. His job was to do ballistics test on weapons used in crimes and after he test fired said weapon he had to open it up to PHYSICALLY inspect it that inclued the grips and even mag sfety's if they had them He told me of several weapons that had been modified like that and the shooter could have been charged because he modified it and a lawyer could make it out in court he did it so he could kill someone easier. It's all in the liability game. Think about that!

    I am an armed security guard, I would rather have my weapon pass any tests they give it in case I ever need it some time

    Oh and using hollowpoints instead of ball ammo is NO way altering the way the weapon is manufatured.

    But you do what you are comfortable with. If you don't feel you need a mag safety then fine, I and others do I believe in keeping all the safety features on a weapon. If you had a Glock would you be replacing the trigger ?
     
  9. Wedging something in the frame to disable the grip safety would be a very very bad idea. Whatever you place in there could come loose and totally disable the firearm or perhaps cause an AD resulting in injury or death.

    Removing the grip safety is also not a good idea because it could have legal ramifications in the event you ever had to use the pistol for self defense. At the very least you could be sued in civil court by the perps family, or another individual who was injured or killed as a result of an altered firearm even if the alteration had nothing to do with the injury or death.

    Some of my pistols have mag safeties and others do not. The mag safety does not change how I feel about a particular pistol and I knew it had a mag safety when I bought it. If the mag safety was something I could not live with I would have purchased another pistol that did not include this feature.

    My suggestion is learn to use the pistol as it was designed or trade/sell for something that suites your needs better.
     
  10. Never said it was a miracle life saving device, and yes, if someone shoots themselves or someone else because they assumed the pistol was cleared since they dropped the mag, their safety training or thought process is poor.

    Simply said that if it DOES save a life, it is worth it. A person does not deserve to die or live with the fact that they killed someone else accidentially just because they are not as safety conscious or as well trained as the most of us ;)
     
  11. squeak_D

    squeak_D Guest

    This is a really grey area. Sure you may practice good gun safety, but that's doesn't mean the next guy does. This mag safety is just another feature HP has added obviously for safety purposes. This a firearm, and an instrument that's essentially designed to take a life (one could easily argue) should have saftey features that go beyond the traditional trigger or hammer saftey.

    Personally I think it's a great feature to have a weapon NOT be capable of discharging once the mag has been removed. If you have a hot one in the chamber, (even if you're the safest person on the planet) the risk is still there. This type of safety is a feature not to single out or insult the gun owner, but just as an added precaution simply because not everyone is going to practice proper gun handling.

    Now removing this feature on your weapon could pose a possible legal liability for you as the gun owner. Remember this saftely was part of the original weapons design. Although removing it may not violate laws in your state, if a person was to die as the result of this modification rest assure that the state prosecutor will more than likely file charges on behalf of the victim as the weapon involved was modified-although maybe not an illeagle modification, but they could easily make a case against you, stating that removing this assembly (that was part of the weapons original design) contributed to the death of another, and could have been avoided had this safety feature not been tampered with.

    Again grey area here man. It will never look good on the gun owner if something was to happen as the result of the owner modifying the weapons safety devices.

    Just my opinion,
    Squeak
     
  12. They don't bother me much.
     
  13. Joe Sixpack

    Joe Sixpack Guest

    where does your friend work? what state?

    people on this very board make many modifications to their guns.. with this logic replacing triggers, stocks and are equally liable, make sure you never change the spring in your gun to make it softer or harder.

    dont ever bother with trying to improve the trigger (this almost always involves making it lighter)

    ask them what you can be charged with if the gun is still perfectly legal without a mag safety?

    what crime was committed?

    thats really all you had to say.. i did'nt need a lecture on something thats not even illegal, i started this thread because i wanted to know what others thought of mag safeties and if anyone else had taken theirs out.

    as for glocks i dont own one, probably never will unless i get one for crack head prices..

    now that you bring it up no i dont like the "safety action" on glocks, but i also dont like the grip.

     
  14. squeak_D

    squeak_D Guest

    Let me explan "true liability" as it pertains to any firearm that you personally modify. Completely disregard the idea of some idiot getting ahold of your weapon. That in itself is... well is an obvious one.

    It would be in your best interest to inform anyone who touches one of your modified weapons that you did modify it because if someone did die as a result of a missing mag safety (not knowing you modified it) you could easily be charged with either neg. or invol. manslaughter. A state prosecutor could easily build a case against you in this situation, and would have no trouble arguing that the death that resulted could have been avoided had the weapon not been modified (and the shooter put on notice), and if said weapon was modified the owner could be held liable for freely extending the use of this weapon to a person without first informing he/she of the modification.

    Don't take this all personally either. I'm sure you're a very safe individual in terms of firearms, but you have to understand other contributing factors that could lead to a possible conviction related to a modified firearm (even if the modification wasn't illeagle).

    Also keep in mind that the advice that you get on this forum isn't all crap. There are LEO that are members here, some of us used to work for large law firms, some of us have experience in the area too. So again don't take anything personally. If you don't like the safety then yes take it out if you choose, but just understand that there are liability risks that you CAN be exposed to as a result of this. Just because you can't think of a case doesn't mean it hasn't happened. There are criminal that win cases against the people whos homes they've broken into. it's always best to be safe on all ends.
     
  15. SHOOTER Z

    SHOOTER Z Well-Known Member

    4,094
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    Let me rephrase this Nothing LEGALLY on removing the mag safety in a CRIMINAL court. In a CIVIL lawsuit a lawyer would rip you all to pieces with the fact the mag safety was removed. You can change springs firing pins triggers even stocks they have nothing to do with a safety feature.


    I DO worry about civil liabilities! I have to everyday I go to work and strap on my side arm [ I carry for a living]


    You wanted a poll that refers to you asked a question I gave you an answer now you just want to argue to make your actions OK. Do what you want to do but don't come out here and expect EVERYONE to agree with you and bless you on your decision and critisize others for telling you what they know and or believe
     
  16. Joe Sixpack

    Joe Sixpack Guest

    criminal and civil cases are totally different animals fella with different burdens of proof.

    since it's just as easily to have a civil suit brought against you with a bone stock gun, you do not need beyond a shadow of a doubt, in fact expect everything from the calibers of your firearm, what it looks like, the type of bullet to the number of shots and where they was shot to all be brought into it.

    do not expect the mag safety to be the clincher between liable and not liable.

    my actions ARE "OK" legally nothing is wrong here, you feel it opens up for liabilty.. sure thats fine but dont try ot pass it off as a fact since this is only your opinion.. if there have been such cases then point them out other wise dont try passing out legal advice like it's the gospel.

    i do not expect everyone to agree, infact that why i put several options on the poll..

    if you like mag safeties thats fine and good and well, thats why i made this thread.. but when you try to give your layman's legal advice is what i have a problem with.. esp when you just keep directing them specifically to me, as if i've done something wrong.

    If you think it's a mistake to remove it then thats cool.. state that, but when it's continuesly directed to me and.. to be frank.. dont give two turds if people think i made a mistake i start taking it personal, the thread is not a vote to rather i should take/keep it out.. thats already been decided by myself, i just wanted to know who else out there like/hates/dont care about mag safties, thats it.

    keep your mag safety i dont give a flying turd, this thread is not for your praise nor your condemnation, it was simply my effort to see how many people feel about mag safties, nothing more.

    it's out, it's staying out, it's how i like it, and it's perfectly legal, end of "MY" story.

    if i shoot my self then i deserved it because i did'nt handle the gun with respect..
    i can see how it can be a safety feature, it also see how i can cost you your life, and most scenarios where you want to pull the trigger if you did'nt clear the gun you're likely to just insert the mag and do it anyway.

    so please state your opinion you feel it's a liability, state your opinion you like mag safeties, thats all well and good..

    but if you direct them to me you'll get a equal opinion back.


    P.S

    I do appreciate everyones concern about my legal well being, however this thread is not for deciding rather or not i'll keep it out i made up my mind as soon as i removed it that it was staying out, so pleas keep your comments neutral this is about rather you like mag safties not my liability.
     
  17. Kevin84

    Kevin84 Guest

    If I need to dry fire I just push the mag safety in with my pinky. I don't see the big deal here. If you don't like it, take it out and deal with any possible legal issues later. If it doesn't bother you, leave it in. :roll: