Mosin Nagants.. Like them? or Not?

Discussion in 'General Firearms Discussion' started by wizard, Oct 21, 2015.

  1. Kiln

    Kiln Member

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    I'm not sure but I'd guess 15+ for the double action.
     
  2. greg_r

    greg_r Lifetime Supporter

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    Agreed. The FR8 is a converted M48 which is based on the M98. The third locking lug does make it stronger than the FR7.

    Still the 7.62 Spanish/ 7.62x51 CETME is weaker than the 7.62 NATO. The FR7/FR8 were in service from the early 1950's to the early 1980's. IIRC Spain finally came up to NATO specs in the late 1980's, so the rifles were likely pressure tested to CETME standards. Add the fact that the 308 Winchester is designed to withstand up to 20% more pressure than the 7.62x51 NATO.

    I liken it to my 223 Remington and my 5.56 NATO rifles. Lots of people shoot 5.56 in their 223. I just will not do it, but I acknowledge that I am anal.
     

  3. MaryB

    MaryB Supporting Member

    .223 to 5.56 is only about a 12k pressure difference...
     
  4. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

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    That's a myth, too. I mean, the "standards" for maximum allowed are misunderstood exactly as you say...but it's still a misunderstanding.

    This is pressure Spec for .223

    Maximum pressure (SAAMI) 55,000 psi (380 MPa)
    Maximum pressure (CIP) 62,366 psi (430.00 MPa)
    Maximum CUP 52000 CUP


    The 5.56 pressure Spec:

    Maximum pressure (SCATP 5.56) 380.00 MPa (55,114 psi)
    Maximum pressure (EPVAT) 430.00 MPa (62,366 psi)

    Here's why folks get confused...they mix up max, and max average, because of the difference between CIP and SAAMI terminology, as well as methodology.

    "C.I.P. defines the maximum service and proof test pressures of the .223 Remington cartridge equal to the 5.56 mm NATO, at 430 MPa (62,366 psi). This differs from the SAAMI maximum pressure specification for .223 Remington of 380 MPa (55,114 psi), due to CIP test protocols measuring pressure using a drilled case, rather than an intact case with a conformal piston, along with other differences.[52] NATO uses NATO EPVAT pressure test protocols for their small arms ammunition specifications.

    Because of these differences in methodology, the CIP Maximum pressure of 430 MPa (62,366 psi) is the same as a SAAMI average max pressure of 380 MPa (55,114 psi), which is reflected in US Military specifications for 5.56 mm NATO, which call for a mean maximum average pressure of 55,000 PSI (when measured using a protocol similar to SAAMI)."




    LuckyGunner website did a test, and they had more variation between guns with different brands of the correct ammo they were chambered for, than they did between the "wrong" ammo compared to the "correct" ammo.

    Here's the specs for M855 from that test.

    [url]http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/5-56-vs-223/[/url]

    [img]http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/m855specs.jpg

    As greg_r said, if you are anal about it, fine, don't shoot it, I won't argue that.

    The ONLY time I'd worry about it, personally, was if I had a VERY tight chambered .223 rifle, with a short leade, and had longer NATO stuff (it mostly isn't ) or hot reloads.
     
  5. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    Pics. They're not exactly high quality pics but the SN starts "0T" or "OT"


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  6. FlashBang

    FlashBang I Stand With Talon Lifetime Supporter

    Kirk,

    That looks to be a Spanish Mauser.
     

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  7. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    That seems to be the most likely, from what I've read.

    Also, from what I've read, these were, apparently, arsenal re-chambered, which included the gvt gunsmiths rechambering and then re-heat-treating the barrel. So, unless they borked the heat-treat, it's probably GTG (according to what I've read ;)).

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  8. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

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  9. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

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    Yep, it's the equivalent of the FR-7 without the CETME style sights, flash hider and tool holder/bayo lug.

    Should be just fine.
     
  10. peorth

    peorth Member

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    Today I would only recommend Mosins to collectors. If you're into WW2 stuff then by all means, buy the Mosin, K98, Ariska, Enfield, etc. If you want an accurate shooter then get Finnish Mosin or Swiss K31.

    For non collectors looking for a bolt gun, I would point them to something new like Savage Axis II XP with accu trigger. It costs a little more but you get a new gun that shoots modern ammo. If you want the authentic mil surplus rifle heavy trigger feel, buy the AXIS XP without accu trigger. It's like pulling the trigger on a double action revolver.

    I would not recommend a Remington 770 or 783 due to substandard QC and poor customer service. Only good thing I would say is 783 has great trigger. But I would not buy another one.

    Hmm. I would like to see Hi Point make pistol caliber bolt action rifle...
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2015
  11. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

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    Or an Enfield, or a Swedish Mauser or Czech Mauser.


    I agree with that.


    If your Milsurps or Axis feel like a heavy double action revolver, there's something wrong. None of my Milsurps have a heavy trigger, though they do tend to have a lot of take up or pre load, like a two stage trigger.



    I have a Zamack .22, falling block single shot made by Ithaca.

    Not sure I want an HP bolt action made with Zamack, and if they use steel...it would be just like every other cheap bolt gun.
     
  12. lsi1

    lsi1 Member

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    bought my first mosin in september picked it up in October and Finally shot it on Saturday. I wasn't expecting to like it as much as i did. I ventilated a burn barrel for a friend instead of using a pick we used some 7.62x54r which easily zipped through both layers of steel and still had enough force to hit our birm with enough energy to throw dirt 20 feet in the air. each round hit reasonably close to where I was aiming and It seemed to have better accuracy than I've been lead to believe was possible with a standard 91/30. Now I need more ammo and maybe a spare rifle.
     
  13. MaryB

    MaryB Supporting Member

    I have an Axis XP without accu trigger. 4 pound pull... no clue where you are getting the super heavy pull from

     
  14. peorth

    peorth Member

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    I have the Savage XP .223 heavy barrel. My buddy tried shooting it for the first time and had a confused look on his face. He thought the safety was on. The trigger is estimated at 7 to 7.5 lb. I purchased a replacement spring and got it down to ~4 lb.

    If you google savage axis replacement spring you will get quite a few results.

    [ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=evfvT70togE[/ame]

    [ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JZIVoZPlBNI[/ame]

    P.S. I do not recommend cutting the factory spring. Replacement springs can be had from Amazon, eBay, or Pilot G2 pen.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2015
  15. Audiokutz

    Audiokutz Member

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    Read about Mosin-Nagants in a prepper article, and went on the search for one as a long range stopper. I'd heard about the $100 price, and couldn't find anything but a Chinese copy for anywhere near that... Checking Craigslist one day, for a beach bike, and the guys ad said he also had a "post apocalyptic movie prop" for trade... Curiosity got me, and he had something that he thought was called a Mosin something... A friend gave it to him in trade for a cheap guitar. He sent me video, and I met him and traded a socket set and a shop light for the old girl.

    Took it to my gunsmith for a check, and he revealed that my rifle was a Finn Model 24, with a Bohler-Stahl barrel (sorry about the spelling), and was built between 1924 - 1928. He called it a real tack driver, which it is, and which I attribute to the German barrel.

    Do I like it? Hell yeah, and helll yeah... It's a piece of history, that shoots better than most off the shelf hunters!
     
  16. talon

    talon the banned wagon

    Silly me thinking to post Mosin links in a thread titled "Mosin Nagants".
     
  17. FlashBang

    FlashBang I Stand With Talon Lifetime Supporter

    Well there you have it... :D
     

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  18. df1995

    df1995 Member

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    Actually both Mosin and Nagant were designers of the M1891. One designed (or plagerized) the bolt-action. The other the magazine.