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yeah I know their kinda picky about ammo...anyone who actually ownes one want to chime in on ammo and reliablility...I havent got to shoot her yet. Picked up pmc labeled 308(7.62x51 nato), picked up WWB labeled 7.62, picked up wolf steel cased .308. anybody have any input in these and what I should expect? Gun was well taken care of and clean when I got it. Serial # puts her in 1994 from century.


 

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The Aussie and South African brass cased ammo is great stuff. I don't have a CETME but I have a FN FAL and a M-14sa. The FAL hates steel cased ammo and jams a lot, mostly extraction jams. My M-14sa doesn't have any problems with steel cased ammo. If your rifle has the fluted chamber you will have some jams with steel cased ammo. Stick to NATO Spec ammo and you shouldn't have any troubles.


Ron M.
 

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I wouldn't put any commercial loaded .308 through it. The pressures for the commercial .308 are a good bit higher than NATO spec. I wouldn't want you to damage that fine looking weapon, or especially not injure yourself.
 

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Also check for a ground off bolt, Century was notorious for grinding off the back of the bolt to produce a false bolt gap reading instead of correcting the problem in the proper way. If yours is ground, you'll need a new bolt head and probably some +4 rollers to get it in proper spec.
 

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agreed with checking the bolt, the rollers are cheap and a new bolt was around $75 last time i checked. i replaced the whole thing on mine just to be safe. DO NOT shoot the Indian/Pakistani .308 in it! there are very documented Kbooms when using it. south african is great and mine will shoot wolf all day. they are a great gun...go to the CETME forums, everything you ever need to know. and then some
 

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sigh, here we go again. the difference isnt in pressure its in case design AFFECTING pressure. NATO spec ammo has to be able to withstand being fired in open bolt full auto machine guns. therefore the case head and web have to be much stringer than commercial brass. thusly NATo spec brass has a smaller internal case capacity. this comes into play when you have two rounds of ammo loaded with teh same load, one commercial brass, one NATO spec. the NATo spec brass will have much higher pressure curves because there is less space for the pressure to expand into when the round fires.

snip from Jim bullocks website that explains it alot better than me.

"I have pressure tested thousands of rounds of ammo in many different calibers both professionally (years ago) and more recently using the facilities of the Canadian Gov't (Explosives Branch) and Expro (maker of IMR powder).

While I don't like sweeping statements, in 308/7.62 I have found that although the specifications have very similar maximum acceptable pressures, the military ammo is usually "hotter".

Commercial ammo tends to run a round 55,000 psi while I have seen some lots of military running around 60,000 psi. (Same pressure gun, observed in the same pressure testing project.)

Ammo specifications can be miss-leading. Military ammo is usually quoted using the CUP system whereas commercial ammo is quoted in psi. The actual pressure maximums are about the same, but the numbers are about 5,000 units apart. This can create the illusion that the military is lower pressure.

The military know what rifles the ammo will be used in and have a guarantee that the rifles will be in good shape. Commercial companies worry about lawsuits. There are rifles in poor condition, miss-matched bolts, unsuitable actions, etc. The last 50 feet per second will cost about 5,000 psi. As a commercial loader I would trade off 50 fps for the safety of 5,000 less pressure, any time. Although commercial ammo can be loaded to 60,000 psi the companies I have discussed this with tell me they don't like to go beyond 57,000 and 55,000 is what they prefer.

The military brass is heavier than commercial brass. I load 308 in commercial brass that weighs 157 grains. I load 7.62 in brass that weighs 195 grains. (I happen to have a large quantity of both types). Since the outside dimensions are the same, we know the internal capacity of the 7.62 case is less because of an extra 38 grains of brass. The powder capacity is very different and the pressure/velocity results of the two are so different I have to treat them as quite different calibers. The light brass can use a larger powder charge and obtain higher velocity at the same peak pressure. The peak pressure of a 308 and a 3006 are the same. The difference is powder capacity. More powder translates to more energy and more velocity. To a lesser extent, the same thing is true of 308 vs. 7.62

Commercial ammo seldom exploits the larger case capacity. In practice I find the military ammo loaded fairly "hot" and commercial ammo is less than max pressure.

Pressure being equal, the military brass offers a significant safety factor. Some actions have chambers with less head support than others, so a thick head is important.

When loading for 303 British the same thing is true about brass weight. Military brass is heavier. Segregate your brass, military vs. commercial and use 2 grains less powder in the military. If you load 3 to 5 grains less than the max powder charge shown in the book you will find the brass lasts much longer. 20 reloads instead of 3 to 5. Just neck size the first quarter inch of the neck, if it is to be shot again in the same rifle.

The suggestion about shooting over a chronograph is an interesting one. If the bullet weight is the same, higher velocity equates to higher pressure, but only if the brass is the same. As I have explained, 308 and 7.62 brass is not the same.

The Hornady Light Magnum ammo I have shot in 308 (both production and experimental) offers significantly higher velocity (around 200 fps) for ordinary pressures (around 55,000 psi). This is accomplished by using a very large charge of compressed slow ball powder. They stuff a 3006 load of slow ball powder into a 308 case. Don't try this at home. You can't do it.

In conclusion, commercial ammo probably has lower pressure than military. Military is safe if the rifle is in good shape. Hornady Light Magnum has unremarkable pressure and I would not hesitate to use it any rifle in good shape.

Handloading and down loading 100 to 200 fps is much easier on the rifle, the brass and the shoulder and is still perfectly fine for punching paper out to 600 yards (about 500 yards farther than is usually required.) "


So 47 mason, you're wrong on this one.

i ONLY shoot military brass through my CETME. after ripping the case head off a federal 308 round and spending two days getting it out (and wrecking some tools in teh process) i dont touch commercial with a 10 foot pole. its not about pressure in this case its about extraction type. the non-rotating extraction style of the whole CETME/G3 family is hell on brass and some if not most commercial cant take it.

SW
 

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because they are using SAAMI case dimesion specs which SAAMI states are MINIMUM specs (what we know as a match grade chamber)which no standard rifle will have. they also incorrectly state that SAAMI/ANSI pressure specs are done by piezio sensor, SAAMI specs are done by CUP (Copper units of pressure) which is a TOTALLY different measurement system, which can throw the numbers off by 5000 PSI or more in a given calculation. all american makers use SAAMI CUP measurements in thier ammo testing (BTDT with the 416 dakota magnum project). ANSI (american national standards institute) as far as i can tell or find on thier website has nothing to do with firearms pressure specifications nor testing, so where the 303 site gets that from i have no idea.

SW
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
SW...in my opening post I listed ammo I bought to use...you wouldnt use any of those three? I am asking because you have and shoot a cetme!
 

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for teh three you listed, No, maybe and hell no, in that order. steel cased ammo will chew up the chamber flutes, the PMC may split or rip the head off because the brass is too soft. teh WWB may be military overrun but ifts marked 308 on the headstamp, id say no again. if its marked with a NATO cross or military headstamp then you're good to go.

SW
 

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ok now i'm getting twitchy, can I shoot off the shelf 308 in my rechambered mauser?
 

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ok now i'm getting twitchy, can I shoot off the shelf 308 in my rechambered mauser?
You can, just stay away from the really hot stuff.... Iwould opt for 7.62 though. Oh, and have a good smith take a look at it and give you his blessing...
 

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The Indian stuff to avoid is the 90's dated stuff, total junk, cases are not crimped, instead, they sealed the bullets into the case with tar, the primers are tar sealed, and hand inspection is neded, as rounds have been found with bent bullets. The tar seals alone will gum up a CETME's chamber flutes, and is tough to get it all cleaned out. This junk is okay to use in bolt guns, as long as it is properly inspected.

The running joke was that the Indians used blind Pakastanis to produce, and inspect their ammo...

However, a big lot of late 70s dated stuff came in a few years back, packed in ammo cans, it was marked as being New Zealand contract ammo, imported by Gray and Shovel, which, as it turns out, is a bogus company, and label, used to get the ammo noticed, and so it would sell.

Fogot to add...RadWay Green, Brit. ammo, very rare anymore, great stuff, just be careful if you find a dealer who has alot of it in cans, ask to see the headstamp, apparently, a couple of years back, some unscruplulous persons decided to repack loose packed 90s Indian junk ammo, that wasn't selling, in Radway Cans, on stipper clips, in Radway bandoleers.

However, the ammo is good, made when Winchester was first setting up the 7.62 production equipment for the Indian government, Winchester engineers were present, and doing Q.A. for the first couple of years. I have a can of '76 dated stuff that is properly crimped, no tar seals, and looks as goos as Aussie, and S.A. ammo. Safe to shoot in FALs, G-3s, and CETMEs.

Good milsurp 7.62 is getting hard to get, it's dried up, and when good stuff can be found, it's expensive. Best thing to do is check the gunshows, and see what you can find, S.A., and some Portugese has been showing up around these parts latley, but the prices are high.

Be careful of the military over run stuff, it is 7.62, but, it's not always in spec, I've heard of recent Lake City over run ammo being garbage, it's not really over run, as pretty much every currently produced round of 7.62 ammo goes right to the Gulf, it's actually out of spec for military, but deemed okay for sale, the current stuff should be inspected. Alot of Black Hills re-manufactured ammo is this stuff, but it was in fact, pulled apart, inspected, and re-assembled.

Also, avoid CAVIM and Santa Barbra, CAVIM is HOT, and Santa Barbra didn't get too many good reviews, can't remember why it was to be avoided, either out of spec, or hot.

Carpe_Jugulum, Yes, you can shoot commercial .308 through your Mauser, some of the milsurp 7.92 Mauser ammo is hotter, espcially Turk and Equadoran, can't use either in any semi-auto rifles chambered in 7.92, than most of the commercial .308 ammo out there. The large ring Mauser 98 action is the best, and strongest out there, as long as the reciever, and barrel are in good shape, and the headspace is correct, you can blast away all the commmercial .308 you want.
 
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