Need help sighting in my 4595 Carbine

Discussion in 'General Hi-Point Discussion' started by Dbeman, Apr 17, 2016.

  1. Dbeman

    Dbeman Member

    4
    0
    First off, I love this rifle! Great product! I am however new to this sight set up. Having never owned a gun with sights like these I'm not sure how to adjust. My rifle is dead on inside 15-25 yards but when I move farther back its WAAAAAY low. I ran out of room moving the rear sight up. I'd like to shoot this rifle at 50-75 yards. What am I doing wrong or not doing? Any input would be greatly appreciated.
     
  2. harleyboy65

    harleyboy65 Supporting Member

    You can move the front site up and down, you will get it sighted in. Welcome to the site and buy JHP 45 to go with it and have twice the fun.
     

  3. kengrant

    kengrant Member

    108
    3
    Easy , just put the rear sight at it's mid-point and lower the front sight in small amounts until you get the 4595 where you want it to hit.
     
  4. Dbeman

    Dbeman Member

    4
    0
    Thanks for the tips! I'm going to finish sighting it in tomorrow after my turkey hunt.
     
  5. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

    34,267
    10,272
    NE Utah
    None of those will help with your problem.

    The only reason to move the front sight is if you are out of adjustment in the rear sight.

    The issue is the distance of your zero, and the ballistic arc of the bullet.
    And "about right" isn't going to be good enough.;)

    Here's the deal...to hit higher further out, you usually need the bullet to arc up higher in the middle of your distances, and you do that by changing the zero distance.

    [​IMG]

    But with a pistol caliber carbine, that middle distance isn't very far out.
    So, changes can be odd, and dramatic.

    Edited...I did 9mm charts for the info below:eek:...I'll have to do some .45 numbers.

    If you zero at 25 yards, you'll never be more than 1/2 inch high at any range, but nearly 6 low at 100, and 19 low at 150.

    If you zero at 15, you are only 1.3" high at 45, but only 3" low at 100, and 15" low at 150. So its pretty much point and shoot out to 75, and easy hold over out to 100+.

    Zero at 10 yards, and you get 3.5" high at 60, but 1" high at 100, and only 9" low at 150. Great for CQB/HD or "long" range, bad for typical 25-70 yard plinking.
     
  6. kengrant

    kengrant Member

    108
    3
    The purpose of setting the rear sight at mid-point is so you can adjust up or down if ever needed when changing ammo.
    I zeroed mine at 50 yds. (moving the front sight) with Winchester 230 gr. and if I shoot different ammo (factory or reloads ) I may have to adjust the rear up or down as needed.
     
  7. Learned something new today. Thank you!
     
  8. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

    34,267
    10,272
    NE Utah
    I'd have just moved the rear sight anyway. If the ammo was so different that I ran out of adjustment, I'd have not bought that ammo anymore.:p

    But you do have a good point.;)

    That 50 yard zero, though...wow, that's out there.
    That's a 10 inch drop at 100 yards.
    A 25 yard zero is worse, 14" drop
    10 yard zero, 7 inch drop at 100.
     
  9. kengrant

    kengrant Member

    108
    3
    With my 50 yd. zero anything closer such as a human size target , most likely I won't even use the rear sight.
    I would be using "Quick Kill" , "Quick Fire" , "Threat Focused" or "Target Focused " or what ever you name it.
     
  10. TNTRAILERTRASH

    TNTRAILERTRASH Supporting Member

    I have never touched the front sight on any HP carbine. I have owned 10 so far. One has a red dot with no front sight. The seller did give me the front, he lost the rear. I leave them on if I am running optics.
     
  11. kengrant

    kengrant Member

    108
    3
    When I first fired my 4595 , it shot off the paper to the right at 25 yds.
    Moved the rear all the way to the left and still shot too far right.
    Centered the rear and started moving the front sight to the right and got it zeroed at 25 yds. but the front sight was so far tilted that it looked odd.

    Sent it back to be checked out and it turned out to have a bent barrel.
    The barrel was replaced and sent back to me along with a target shot with it.
    The target showed the 4595 was zeroed at 30 yds. when it was tested.
    I don't know if the tester used a 6 o'clock hold or a center hold on the bullseye but the shots were centered.

    I tested it at 50 yds. using WWB 230 ammo and it hit point of aim at the bottom of the bullseye using a 6 o'clock hold.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2016
  12. kengrant

    kengrant Member

    108
    3
    "But with a pistol caliber carbine, that middle distance isn't very far out.
    So, changes can be odd, and dramatic.

    If you zero at 25 yards, you'll never be more than 1/2 inch high at any range, but nearly 6 low at 100, and 19 low at 150.

    If you zero at 15, you are only 1.3" high at 45, but only 3" low at 100, and 15" low at 150. So its pretty much point and shoot out to 75, and easy hold over out to 100+.

    Zero at 10 yards, and you get 3.5" high at 60, but 1" high at 100, and only 9" low at 150. Great for CQB/HD or "long" range, bad for typical 25-70 yard plinking."

    All of the above could change a lot between different ammo brands or different bullet weights.
    There is NO CHART that works well with all ammo and the only way to find out is to shoot it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2016
  13. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

    34,267
    10,272
    NE Utah
    Absolutely right. I used basic FMJ 1250 fps 115 gr 9 mm, and basic 230 grain 850 fps .45, to get a basic idea of things.

    This was in answer to the OP's question, NOT to your ideas of how to do things.;)

    If you go nuts and use 5 different types of ammo, you'd get different results, but the info I used is STILL going to give us an idea of how things change with different zeroes, regardless of the ammo you decide to experiment with...which is NOT what this thread was about, BTW.

    So here's how to solve the problem, and make things simple. Quit using different ammo, and get lots of the one that works right and hits POA at your preferred ranges with your preferred zero, OR assume that what you are doing is nothing at all like what we are doing, and do your own thread about how you do things.

    I mean...it's a PCC, for crying out loud. It's not like it's a shotgun and I want to carry a bandoleer with slugs, another with bird shot, and a pouch of flash bangs to keep my tactical options open.:cool:
     
  14. moona11

    moona11 King of you Monkeys Lifetime Supporter

    Getting schooled by the teach.
     
  15. kengrant

    kengrant Member

    108
    3
    ajole , did you shoot the 9 & 45 at all the different distances or just go by charts or tables ?
    If so , you put a lot of time and effort into it.
     
  16. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

    34,267
    10,272
    NE Utah
    Yep, its a hobby.:)

    It's all charts, and physics, and math; but I HAVE shot the 9 and 45 at those distances, and the charts reflect what I see on the range. Because, you know...it's science.

    As I said, those charts will give you a BASIC starting point to use. And that's what the OP wanted, information on how to set his gun up.

    You can talk all day about centering sights and adjusting for various bullets, but the reality is, for most folks, we don't do that. We set a gun up to run one type of ammo, and we use that type of ammo. If forced to, we will go to another ammo...but we will then re-zero the gun, and leave the sights alone until forced to change ammo again.


    The point is, if he zeroes at 10 yards, assuming he CAN zero at 10 yards, using typical 230 grain .45 ACP ammo at about 850 fps, then he'll have about what he wants, which is:

    I'd like to shoot this rifle at 50-75 yards.

    A 10 yard zero, with 850 fps 230 grain .45 ACP FMJ ball type ammo, will put him about .75" high at 50 , and 3" low at 75, with about 10" of drop below POA at 100.

    A 15 yard zero is 1" low at 50 and low by about 5.5" at 75, , and then 13" low at 100. Not better to me.

    And your 50 yard zero is on at 50, but 4" low at 75, and nearly 12 low at 100. Also not better, IMHO. But not bad, either.


    So...the OP needs to decide what he wants. Dead on at 50, with more drop after that, or slightly high at 50, with less drop at 75 and the longer ranges, then choose the zero that gives him that, then choose the bullets he wants to zero with, zero it up and see if he's happy, and then get lots of that velocity bullet.

    All a different velocity bullet will do is move the curve up or down, like a 180 grain 1140 fps Golden Saber is going to simply be higher at nearly every point. So...you change the zero, and leave your sights alone after that.

    In fact, with a 10 yard zero, its 3" high at 55, 2" high at 75, and only 3/4 low at 100.

    While the 50 yard zero is 2" low at 75, but 6.5 low at 100.

    But this time the 15 yard zero comes in at .8 high at 50, .8 low at 75, and less than 5" low at 100. That's about perfect.

    So if I were shooting FAST .45 bullets, I'd choose a 15 yard zero.

    So, to repeat....do not swap bullets around. Get what you are getting for your purpose, and set your gun up to run them. This is not a sniper rifle, you don't dial in elevation, this is not a hunting rifle, you don't choose heavier bullets for an elk hunt, or lighter bullets for coyotes or antelope...Its just a PCC, and you just shoot .45.

    And even if you DO decide you need some super fast JHP or something for self or home defense...at typical house SD distances, none of this makes ANY real difference, so zero the gun for your range fodder, check a few of your hot stuff at 10 yards, and move on.;)
     
  17. kengrant

    kengrant Member

    108
    3
    I need to ask this question.
    With adjustable front and rear sights what is wrong with having the rear at it's mid-point and adjusting the front to zero at what ever distance you choose to use ?
     
  18. TNTRAILERTRASH

    TNTRAILERTRASH Supporting Member


    Front sight is held on with bolt. The rear is adjusted with a HiPoint tool or screw driver. Which is easier to diddle dick around with? The rifle was probably close if not on from the factory. I have owned 2 new ones. Both dead nuts on out of the box.
     
  19. Rachgier

    Rachgier Administrator Staff Member

    Nothing at all. The FSP is for gross POA/POI adjustments, and the rear is for the fine tuning.

    I've shot quarter sized groups at 75 yards with my 4095. My FSP was canted from the factory, so once I squared it up and got pretty tight on paper at 15 yards, I fell back to adjusting the rear sight.

    I've shot several types of ammo and while they do have a different POI than the hand rolled ammo I used to sight it in, they still group nicely. All fall within a 12" circle, so I'm happy. I shoot my own hand rolls primarily, but I'm confident I can hit my target with any ammo. Besides, my 4095 isn't a battle rifle. I've got AR's for that.
     
  20. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

    34,267
    10,272
    NE Utah
    There's no....metering...to the front sight. It's not repeatable, and it's not easy to measure how far you need to go. Do you move it 1/16 of an inch, or 3/32? You loosen it, it moves...you loosen it the next time, and if you aren't careful, it's going to slide back where it was, and you start over.


    Like Rach says, you might move the front to get you close, or compensate for some other issue, but real adjustments are done at the rear. That's why it has fine thread adjustment screws, instead of machine bolts holding it on.;)