New cab defence piece, but it's not what you'd think...

Discussion in 'CCW & Open Carry' started by neothespian, Jan 5, 2008.

  1. neothespian

    neothespian Member

    Well I've been getting my ducks in a row to return to my old "day job" in order to go back to school and to go back to working as a Stage Manager. But, with driving a cab comes the concern of "solo" employment out on the streets. Most of the time it's awesome because I have almost no interference with how I run things, and you really DO get to meet some of the coolest people. But then there are the drunks, tweakers, deadbeat fares, carjackers and getto trash that come with it.

    So what to carry? For the longest time I carried the C9, and it still is in my mind the best bang for the buck (pardon the pun) when it comes to price and reliability, and will carry it still from time to time. But, a 9mm compact is not often the best choice. There are many other factors to consider such as:

    -environment (space of area shooting, lighting conditions, room for drawing, etc)
    -culture (how others perceive)
    -ease of use

    Lots of stuff! I thought about the Kel-Tec, the venerable Taurus and Smith and Wesson wheelguns in .357mag/.38 spcl, and the infamous Phoenix and Raven arms. But, while doing research I had an unusual experience the other week that left me thinking.

    I got to see a meth head at the local Circle K (a convience store in the Southwest) get tasered by a cop in person!

    Now, it seems stuff was already out of hand when I got there, but the cop came in right behind me before I could get out. So I decided to chill by the slurpee machine until they did their thing. Long story short: Tweaker didn't do what they said, the cops zapped him and he went down faster than I've ever seen anyone drop!

    And, contrary to the cheap chinese stuff you buy at a gun show for 20 bucks, he didn't just get right up. He was flying and then he was all sorts of twitching in the wrong ways. As they were tying things up and the cops were getting statements, I asked one of the other guys if he really thinks the Taser was a decent weapon for less than lethal use and explained to him what I did for a living. Without hesitation he said "Yes!" and explained that out of all assualt situations, the three times there was no question if the shooter was in the right was when it was involving a Taser corp device.

    This was about a week ago, and the research on my part has been insane! While nearly all "stun guns" are considered noisemakers at best, only Taser International's devices actually put a subject down. Are they better than a gun? No, but then again, they're NOT a slugthrower. The police in nearly every city in North America swear by them, and every media source may say nasty things about them, there are rarely events where someone simply "shrugs" off a shot from one of these weapons.

    So, after much deliberations and even going back a few years to when I considered the then-insanely priced $999 civilian-ized police models, I have put my credit card where my mouth is and ordered this:


    Price was a bit on the more steep side ($299, plus 2 extra cartriges at $25 each), but pound for pound it's been the highest reviewed weapon by police next to the Glock. It's ergonomic, surprisingly substantial, and the features truly impressed me. Pulse rates at 30 second intervals, 15 foot range, 50 "intervals" per full charge on a Lithium-ion power cell (which contributes to 70 percent of the weight), VERY durable construction, concealed probe port in order to keep the weapon clean and ready, full output at about .30 joules per pulse at an average pulse per second rate of 17pps (about 4x higher than nearly every highest powered chinese unit out there), and capable of drive stun even if the cartridge has been fired or not.

    Is it perfect for all around defence? Depends on the application. Yeah, each round is $25 EACH and it requires a reload after every shot. Also, it hardly has the intimidation factor of a slugthrower and will probably be mistaken for an Energizer single use flashlight. But then again, I'm not out to impress anyone when I pull a weapon. The few times that I've had to draw a firearm, neither myself nor the assailiant had time to contemplate the socio-economic impact of my weapon.

    It's been a matter of half a decade of my debating on whether or not to take the jump to carrying a "new" weapon, and I think I've made the best choice. The price has dropped 66% percent since the civilian model was made "affordable", and the design has been improved from the user's perspective. It's really been designed from the ground up outside of the gun industry as it's own weapon. And, after the research, on-hands examination and number crunching it seems perfect for my application. The police have a positive image of it since in Arizona there is not one documented use of a registered Taser being used in any crime, it's suited for equal output in either close range or distance firing, it can be used inside a car and out, and carries far less liability than a firearm. Also, it is NOT considered a concealed weapon in the state of Arizona (although I have a CCW, but this allows me to get around the cab company's ban on drivers carrying weapons) and can even be carried open with a custom holster option.

    I am, by no means, giving up my pistol. I am diversifying my arsenal. Not every situation can be solved by one device. I am confident this should perform well to the application of driving a cab in the culturally questionable, 5th largest city of Phoenix.
  2. As it keeps you from difficulty with the cab company, it is probably the better choice. It will certainly be less likely to cause you legal and employment trouble after a confrontation, and is still probably able to deal with any situation you may find yourself in. I faced the same choice with my wife here in NV and decided she's better off with her CHL and a pistol.

    Good luck with your return to PHX.

  3. Fenix

    Fenix Guest

    Good choice on the taser, those things will take a person down (and they hurt like hell :evil: ) Like all weapons though, hope you don't have to use it. Also, look into practice cartridges, they are substantially cheaper so you can get some experience with them.
  4. Taurus Judge 410/45LC maybe? Makes a perfect car defense gun. First round a 410 shell, the rest 45LC.
  5. neothespian

    neothespian Member

    The problem is: I'm not worried about those outside the car. Solution there is easy: Big Crown Vic (often retired patrol cars) with massive frames and tons of liability insurance. Just hit the accelerator and have the car's webcam pointed in the right direction.

    My problem was application of what happens INSIDE the car. This is where 80 percent of my problems occur. When you've got less than 4 feet in any direction, the physics of a fight change. This I believe fits the bill well since this is exactly the situation it was designed for.

    Besides, there is NO way to conceal a Judge 410/45LC!!! And, then there's the adage that was so smartly pointed out by Woody Allen

    *Try to imagine the nasally voice. For some reason it makes sense that way*

    "While a big gun is good and all since the bad guys notice it first.....but, isn't that what the cops are gonna notice too?"

    Then again, this is the same man who said "Don't knock masterbation: It's sex with someone you love". So, take it as you will
  6. rodka

    rodka Member

    i would carry both the tazer and the c9 so incase things get to out of hand and the taser cant handle things you can always put them down with the c9.

    i had a friend who was a cab driver and he would carry a revolver either on him under a coat or in a messenger bag with the rest of his stuff right next to him in the front.
  7. Then load it with all 410 shells, seems to be the perfect incar gun. Got to hold one and they are no where near as big as I thought they would be. And as far as concealed...helloo...shoulder holster? Although in phoenix, I can see this being a problem in the summer months. Just my opinion, think a shot shell in a defense situation in a car would make sense, but all depends on the situation I suppose.
  8. +1 at what rodka said... taser as a first choice backed up by your C9 for "just in case".
  9. neothespian

    neothespian Member

    The problem is several fold:

    -The lease agreement with the company STRICTLY outlines that firearms are grounds for termination of contract AND legal action. They make no bones about it that guns are not welcomed in their cars. Nearly every cab company follows this. Do most driver adhere to it? Yes. Do some not adhere to it? Yes (Including myself). But, if there is an incident (which there have been) and the police mention that the driver was armed with a firearm, they have been cut from their leases and I know of 3 who have been sued civilly for it.

    Yet, their stance on Tasers are "under consideration" and "not considered deadly weapons by the state of Arizona". And their lease agreement says "No lethal weapons which include knives, guns, clubs or or explosive devices"

    (that last part just amazes me....explosive devices?)

    -Ever had a gun fired inside a car? Unfortunatly I've had one go off inside one...and it is NOT good!! Granted my experience was an accidental discharge by another idiot when a bunch of the theater crew went out shooting, but it is NOT something I want to experience again. Also, if there is ANY damage to the car, the "No gun" policy is out of the bag. See issue 1.

    -the Judge is a scary gun, and you are right that during the summer, it just wouldn't work. That and I'm not a very big guy, so even the C9 is a bit obvious on me. That would be like wearing a Mossberg.

    -Lastly, and this might seem contrary to many, I don't wish to kill anyone. "But if it's your life or theirs..." and yes I know...but the wonderful thing about supporting the 2nd amendment is that it protects my CHOICE of the application of my right. This is why I didn't go for a smaller caliber pistol, since while it might stop a subject, it won't incapacitate them. Tasers have a far better track record for stopping the guy (Just watch COPS. Well, not for research material....granted there's alot of good examples of effective Taser use....but mainly because it's just funny). Also, with 50 charges per round, you can shoot them once and make them hurt over and over again if needed. You hear about people complaining about being shot with a taser, and nearly all of them have only been hit with ONE pulse, and you see the shape many of them end up in. 2 or 3? I wouldn't want to be on the end of that.

    I'm not religating the C9 to the safe mind you. There are will be times where I will be choosing the C9 over the C2 (ironic over the names). It depends on where the events are for that night and the events in the news. While the Judge is a great gun in theory, I just revert to a mental senario of trying to explain to the cop why I unloaded a shotgun shell into the chest of a 16 year old with a knife. In this town, that's called "Excessive force" while the same event has been played out with Tasers in this town and have been glazed over as "Modern Technology saves the day".

    It's a balancing act of safety and freedom. The key is to strike that balance. That combined with the light vest should be an excellent application.
  10. neothespian

    neothespian Member

    Dear god no :shock:

    The problem I have with that article is that they're pushing it off like it's some shoot-and-forget weapon; that if you shoot someone, they're not going to die and everything is going to be ok.

    These things are LESS than lethal, not non-lethal. They can still kill someone and have. They're also not a friggin' iMac or something like an appliance.

    There a difference between user friendly and trivialized. For some reason that article got under my skin...
  11. I look at the other side of coin. My problem with these tazers is how many times has someone seen cops where someone gets tazed, and tazed, and tazed, and tazed? They are being peddled as a *ZAP* guy goes down and stays there, cops comes, everyone is happy. But how many zaps are you going to get out of that thing? Charge time if any? How about thick clothing? And the biggest thing, how ticked off is this guy going to be after getting zapped and now has the adreniline going?
  12. icono

    icono Member

    I was thinking of getting a C2 to carry while on campus(where i spend most of my time and guns are a no no) from what I have read that can get the job done and even though they don't have intimidation factor of a firearm they do carry some intimidation most people know that a taser is and what it can do (ie. "dont tase me bro")
    and i think one of my favorite things to say when some one knocks my love for the 9mm. if you think its a wussy round let me shoot you with it a few times and see if you still think the same thing. also applys to the taser im not volunteering to get hit with one any time soon.
  13. Ari

    Ari Guest

    I have watched everything I can lay my hands on to watch on the tazer. It sure seems to take the fight right out of them. Nothing is the right tool for every job. Be that a gun or a knife or my foot. It is about having the the right club in the bag.

    Here in Washington I can not shoot someone for stealing my car. But I can taze his can. I do not have one but have thought about it.

    They are sure funny to watch on video...
  14. Why are cab companies so prone to being anti-gun?

    My buddy used to drive for one himself and the same rules applied here.

    Seems insane to not allow the driver to protect himself.
  15. Ari

    Ari Guest

    Hey I found this video on that model

  16. Probably because they are more worried about being sued by a BGs family that got shot by a cabbie than worried about the cabbies themselves.
  17. uncle jerky

    uncle jerky Well-Known Member

    Mace? Bear Spray. Yeah, I know a cab is a closed up environment,but mace/spray the bistard,stop your Crown Vic immediately and get 'outa 'der!
  18. Kagern

    Kagern Guest

    For an enclosed environment I'd take a foam style pepper spray. If you're not familiar with it, its exactly what the name says. It sprays a thick foam laced with around 10% OC. They are used in prisons and hospitals were there is serious risk of over spray. They supposedly are also must less likely to trigger severe/life threatening reactions, as most of the effect is on the eyes (IE extreme mind numbing pain) with much less respiratory effect then the liquids. The range is also much shorter, but you're talking about inside a vehicle, right?
  19. uncle jerky

    uncle jerky Well-Known Member

    I say foam those 2 legged animals. Sounds like a good alternative to going to jail, losing everything you own(to a civi lawsuit) and your job to boot, all because you defended yourself using deadly force?