New Member Questions About Bulged Ammo

Discussion in 'Hi-Point Carbines' started by ElSulorac, Nov 22, 2014.

  1. ElSulorac

    ElSulorac Member

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    Hello All,

    I am new to high point carbines (But not to firearms) and bought one a few weeks ago. I purchased a Kel-Tec PMR-30 at the same time and it has monopolized my range time.

    At any rate I reload in .40 S+W and thought getting the carbine would be a logical choice since I have several other pistols in it (including a High Point in .40). Once I picked up my once fired brass from the first couple magazines through my new 4095 carbine I noticed that the brass is bulged ALOT. None of my other pistols do this to this extent and I am a bit worried about sizing and reloading them.

    Also I noticed some "blowback" of debris into my face on more then a few shots....So....How normal is bulging from NEW factory Winchester white box? And is some debris (powder?/metal?/Packing Grease?) normal on your cheek while firing this weapon?
     
  2. boicecf

    boicecf Member

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    What you describe is not normal and I would contact the Tech Dept at Hi Point ASAP!! You may have to send it in for warranty work!! I would not shoot your 4095 until this issue is resolved!!
     

  3. ElSulorac

    ElSulorac Member

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    I got a chance to detail clean it tonight and compare it to a few other guns (SIG P229/High Point .40 S&W handgun). This new carbine does have the most (ahem) "tolerance" in the chamber. Everything inside the firearm looked ok except the fact that a factory Winchester cartridge has some side to side +/or up and down movement in the chamber. In simple terms it was able to be rocked around in the bore with (and I am Guessing here) close to .010" with the tip of my finger.

    I live in Ohio and have never sent a firearm back for warranty so how does that work? Does an FFL have to send it back or can I send it in directly? How long does it take? When it comes back does it ship straight to me or does it have to go to a FFL? If going to a FFL do I have to pay to transfer it back to me?

    As to stuff blowing back on me...it was something I thought I might have noticed after a few days of thinking about the bulged brass. I'd have to fire again to confirm that.

    As of now I only have 3 magazines through it. No failures of any kind-and very accurate. Since I am from Ohio I like the idea that it is built here and very affordable.

    I will include some pictures of the bulged ammo...maybe I am making a mountain out of a molehole on this one. I am very picky about the brass that I reload and I am still concerned about running this through a LEE bulge buster and reusing it. Open to your guys' thoughts-Is this normal brass for a 4095 or should I send it back?
     

    Attached Files:

  4. That's def not right ...send it back..email them those pics if u can. I have seen .40 cases bulged at the base, in one spot, from guns that do not have a "fully supported " chamber...but nothing like that...
     
  5. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

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    Check the chamber and barrel size!
    Looks like they sold you a 4595 in a 4095 receiver, that is so far bulged!
    The unsupported ramp bulge is back by the rim, not up front like that!
     
  6. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

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    DO NOT Fire this weapon any more, just in case...
     
  7. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

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    Some Pix of 2 types of Bulged Brass

    Common GLOCK Unsupported Chamber first, then firing the 40 S&W in a 45 ACP...

    Your brass resembles the 40 in a 45, but not quite as bad.
    I'm thinking that the chamber is slightly too large, as you said the gun was accurate, or maybe (worst case) it has a 4595 barrel on it.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. ElSulorac

    ElSulorac Member

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    Well I guess its going back to the factory then. Kinda a bummer that a brand new gun has issues but that's how the cookie crumbles I guess. Thanks for the replies guys and confirming a problem for me.

    The good news is I still have the new pmr-30 that IS running great 150 rounds in.Really cool firearm. I overpaid for it @$499 but got tired of waiting and got it @cdnn. The whole gun is really light and rapid followup shots are seamless. The thing feels a lot like a paintball marker both in fit and finish though. Some light flashing here and there and Horrible tool marks inside the slide (they don't affect function but cosmetically its ugly inside).
     
  9. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

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    If you have a 45 ACP case or bullet, lock back the slide, remove the mag and just check and see if it fits in the chamber. Just for "gits-n-shiggles", Please? ;)
     
  10. rickm

    rickm Member

    Im going with the 45 chamber also has never seen brass bulge like that unless it was fired in a bigger caliber chamber.
    When u ship it back u will have to use like Fed ex or UPS cause even thou u can ship a long gun thru USPS some places just wont let u but call HP and they will tell u the best way to ship and when it is returned it will come to your front door just that someone will have to be there to sign for it so if your not usually at home i would have it delivered somewhere where a adult can sign for it.
     
  11. undeRGRound

    undeRGRound ROLL wif Da MOLE! Supporting Member

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    My "backwoods gunsmith" buddy told me about it happening on his range, and brought a case in to work. Looked just like the 2nd pic I posted.
     
  12. planosteve

    planosteve Lifetime Supporter

    Dude $499 for a PRM-30 is a great price you did not overpay.
     
  13. ElSulorac

    ElSulorac Member

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    Alright, I tried putting a .45 in it and no go/also tried a empty .45 casing still no go.

    Busted out the ole calipers just to pull a measurement...
    most of the bulged casings read at largest .4310" to .4315"

    Here are a couple more pics:

    Also measured my factory Winchester white box:
    .4165" @ Rim
    .4210" @ Base
    .4210" @ Neck
    ...very close to the same measurements of some blazer brass target ammo I have here.
     

    Attached Files:

  14. rickm

    rickm Member

    Oh and if u send it back in i would include some of the brass with it just so they can see what is going on.
     
  15. Hipointer

    Hipointer Member

    Yeah, I've had cases bulge at the bottom, but not where the chamber is. Listen to undeRGRound, looks like either your chamber is way out of spec for the .40, or you have a .45 chamber.
     
  16. SWAGA

    SWAGA No longer broke... Lifetime Supporter

    I'd be very interested in how this pans out.
    Please keep us in the loop as far as responses and solutions from Hi Point.
    They could have an entire batch out of spec or just a one-off fluke.
     
  17. FlashBang

    FlashBang I Stand With Talon Lifetime Supporter

    There is nothing wrong with the firearm. The expansion ( not bulge ) of the case is caused during the ejection phase of the discharge sequence. Upon discharge the bolt begins its rearward movement for extraction and ejection of the spent cartridge. While this is happening there is still pressure within the barrel. As the case leaves the chamber it experiences a just a brief instant when the case side wall is not supported by the chamber walls and the pressure is still just enough to cause the case wall to expand slightly. If the chamber itself was out of spec, or not properly supporting the case, the bulge would be at the very bottom of the case as the pressure would be at its highest point prior to the bolt beginning to move backwards and the case entering the extraction phase. That is what the issue was with Glocks.

    If you are getting debris out of the chamber, it is either due to a dirty chamber or dirty powder used to load the ammunition. Since you state that you are a reloader, you should know how dirty some powders can be. I sometimes use Blue Dot for my .45 reloads and I have to thoroughly clean my shooting gloves afterwards due to how dirty it is.

    Below are some pictures of normal factory dimensions and normal case expansion. Factory Remington Golden Saber .40 S&W, Reloaded .40 S&W, and a spent .40 S&W case from a Beretta 96.
     

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  18. VinnieD

    VinnieD Member

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    If it's not an oversized chamber consider that the bolt may be opening too early, allowing the round to be extracted from the chamber before pressure has dropped. This could be caused by a recoil spring that's too weak. Since you're getting debris blowing back on you, that's a further indication of the chamber opening too early.

    I'd say send it back to get it corrected.
     
  19. You didn't mention if you bought it factory new.

    I had a .45 1911 that wouldn't feed properly. The gunsmith bored out the chamber two thousandths and it fed fine after than. If there was a prior owner, you never know what mods or problems he had corrected before you received it.

    Be careful. That blow-back action can send some nasty stuff your way if the cartridge is not seated properly.
     
  20. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

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    I'm with FlashBang, sort of.

    What you have is slightly undersized Winchester White Box ammo...a known issue in the HP by the way.

    It's supposed to be .423, and tight new chambers are .424, you are getting .421 on your ammo, and then because it's too small, and the chamber may be slightly on the large side of the specs, it doesn't expand in the chamber very well, leading to early "unlock" (except it isn't locked) and then it blows out to .431 as the round clears the chamber.

    So...try some other ammo.

    If it's still ugly, send it in, they'll fix it, and you'll be totally safe, instead of only probably safe.