NIU Shootings

Discussion in '2nd Amendment' started by Ironbutt1345, Feb 15, 2008.

  1. Ironbutt1345

    Ironbutt1345 Guest

    If this topic needs to be in another area, I apologize. I saw some pictures of the weapons allegedly used by this psycopath, and, unfortunately, saw what looked like a Hi-Point 380. I just hate it when these gun-nuts use any firearm in their twisted schemes, but it sure doesn't help Hi-Point's image, which is too bad, because they really seem like a great little company trying to offer a great product at a great price. Any other thoughts out there? :cry:
     
  2. He had a GLOCK, a Sig, a shotgun, and an HP .380. All legally bought. But don't worry; since Illinois does not allow concealed carry this shouldn't happen to often. After all, once you ban conceal carry, people stop carrying guns around, right? Same for declaring schools gun free zones...
     

  3. The world is going mad around us :shock:

    I picked up a slingshot today and showed it to my son, and told him if he is lucky, they will still allow slingshots when he is my age, and it is all because of incidents like this one.
     
  4. A tragedy. Did you guys check the msnbc link in the Hi Point pistols forum? Read through the article and about halfway down there is a link for a study by the USSS and the Board of Ed - real sad. There must have been signs that others picked up on.
     
  5. GrOuNd_ZeRo

    GrOuNd_ZeRo Gun Fanatic Member

    I Just read it...what a tragedy...

    It's so hard to imagine to see a bright young man just FLIP but unfortunatly I know exactly what it's like to suffer from mental illness.

    It's people stigmatizing mental illness and bad relationships and and there is so much more involved perhaps other background issues as well.

    The only stablizing factor I have in my life is my wife, without her...well I would likely take it out on my self rather than the world...too bad he was not that way.
     
  6. urotu

    urotu Member

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    A real tragedy, as with all these scool shootings...

    All I can do is to keep those in my thoughts that need to be, and have a moments of silence for those who are now gone.

    .....................................................................................................
     
  7. Ever notice how stuff like this always happens in a gun free zone!
     
  8. not to sound too callous........ but one wonders if we'd ever hear a public service announcement "If you're gonna check out - do it by yourself!"

    This one won't be the last.
     
  9. My thoughts exactly Newskate, if they wanna go see whats on the other side, fine, do it. But dont take a bunch of innocent people with them for no good reason :shock:
     
  10. TexasD

    TexasD Member

    Well it is my opinion that the events and the spectacular media coverage will increase between now and November. Not that there will be anymore events than usual but the coverage will be more "spectacular" in a concious effort to swing public opinion in favor of banning all firearms.
     
  11. urotu

    urotu Member

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    Agreed, it's in the politics. Both sides are getting set to try and set their platforms.

    This is a sad thing to be happening, but I like the looks of that concealed campus carry site, very intersting. I need to go watch the vid now.
     
  12. Exactly. The media and politicians take oportunities like this to argue in favor of making us less safe by taking the guns away from good citizens that had nothing to do with such a tragic event.

    You can take any steps you want to make sure the people that follow the law don't carry on campus, but you will NEVER be able to stop the loonies from carrying on campus, unless you gate the whole campus with barbed wire, add armed security guards, metal detectors, and pat everyone down on their way in.

    Criminals don't follow laws...especially gun laws! That's what makes them criminals for crying out loud :!:
     
  13. One of the things I like about Utah, any CWP holder can carry on any state-sponsored school grounds legally. This is seriously going to affect my choice of college (whenever I get around to going there).

    So, if shit like this ever starts happening, I'll have my legally concealed weapon and can defend myself. Along with an unknown number of other people on campus.
     
  14. It started slow (School Shootings) but is gathering speed and unfortunately we're going to see more.

    We will eventually get to the point where some students start to break the rules and carry to class anyhow thus saving theirself and further students.
    Only after that happens might we start to see a change.
     
  15. neothespian

    neothespian Member

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    BUT,

    Speaking as someone who has worked for a University, if a student or professor or anyone else uses a firearm to protect others, that user will be expelled, have charges pressed against them, and force their associated professor who sponsored them for their grad program or grant to have all of their funding revoked or even fired themselves. That student will also face civil fines and lawsuits from the university for violation of the "student contract" and could end up paying $50k to $200k in court fees and civil lawsuit settlements all because he saved someone's life.

    Oh, and this will preclude you from attending any state-sponsored University in the US as well...

    Carry a gun and you'll save the lives of those who will destroy yours permanently.....
     
  16. .38sogreat

    .38sogreat Guest

    I think it should be requied for teachers and professors to carry or at least have some of the staff carry a firearm. If these school shootings were shootings at capital buildings they would step up the number of armed gaurds but a schools everyone is so left wing they dont think stright.
     
  17. neothespian

    neothespian Member

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    It's not "Left Wing" thinking, it's ignorance and anti-gun thinking. Left wing thinking would be to utilize the government aspect of the University to implement enhanced security (i.e. off duty police officers, application of ROTC cadets in on-campus security, etc) as a show of application, as well as enacting programs to help those who might act out by means of counciling and other outreach programs.

    This is just pure kneejerk reaction: Blame an entity that cannot defend itself (the dead shooter) and an industry that can be accused of influencing him or her (the gun industry)
     
  18. This is a long read, but well worth it

    Courtsey of the newsletter from

    Gabe Suarez
    Suarez International USA, Inc.
    One Source Tactical
    info@suarezinternational.com

    (Neo I think you will be interested in his comments about Professors carrying in school)






    Preventing School (and anywhere else) Mass Murders
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Some people will be shocked at the tone of this article. They should be. If we listed all the shootings in schools and churches, and any other "gun free" area, this document would still be downloading!


    It would be quite a list. Well, we have what? Three school shooting in the last couple of months. We can only speculate why these events happened. Being good, we cannot fathom what goes on in the mind of evil. And make no mistake my friends, there is in fact evil out there. But lets see if we can solve this problem of evil men targeting the weak.

    What did these places and events all have in common?

    1). Guns were specifically not allowed on the premises by official policy or by law. Some locations have specific legal prohibitions, while others rely only on “company policyâ€.

    Murderers will ignore signs telling them something is prohibited. Clearly, if the state prohibits guns on campus, the good people will obey and leave their guns at home. But quite clearly these signs did not dissuade the killers. Think about it. The only people obeying the law and the signs were the good people…the victims.

    What is the reason behind the “No Guns†policies? Many in authority seek control above all else. They want to control things and people walking about armed cannot be controlled as easily. Obviously they lose control when the sign-ignoring, armed killers come.

    2). Those inside were unarmed and totally helpless. The terrorist would call these gun-free places, “soft targetsâ€. Notice how none of these terrorists ever picks a gun store, or a police station, or even a shooting course?

    3). The police were called to each one of these events. But unless the police happen to be exactly there when the shots are fired, and have the mental perspective and courage to run to the sound of the guns for the sole purpose of locating and killing the gunman outright, the delay in response will be several minutes under best case scenario. And once there, even with the extensive “Active Shooter†training in police circles, the over riding goal is to control and capture, rather than to locate and kill the gunman, that being the only real way to prevent the death of innocents..

    4). The events were eventually resolved by the police presence, but not without some victim deaths. Repeatedly we see that in the majority of these events, the killing is done fairly quickly in the beginning moments of the event.

    5). There has been some discussion about arming teachers. As my good friend, the late great Col. Jeff Cooper said, “One is no more armed because he possesses a pistol than he is a musician because he owns a pianoâ€. In such events, teachers and principals will be useless unless they have self-selected themselves to cultivate the very opposite of what their job is. How many teachers or principals have the internal strength to pull a trigger on one of their students? How many would do the things we would do? I’m sure there are some, but they are certainly not in the majority..

    How can we prevent the next one? (And there will be a next one)

    1). Understand that your safety is your own responsibility. Carry a weapon...everywhere. Company Policy says you can't? Hide your gun better. Law says you can't? Tough choice isn’t it, but I'll point out some dead people who would love to be live outlaws.

    Can't have a gun under your circumstances? Then carry a knife and learn how to use it offensively. Spend money and get trained with your knife. Buying another competition 45 will do you no good if you cannot carry it with you 24/7/365. Are there metal detectors? Carry something deniable as a weapon but easy to stab with. You need to be armed. If the rules prevent you from doing so, find a way around them. Think like a criminal.

    A knife may not be an equal to a shotgun, but you have a choice. You can die on your knees defenseless, asking yourself why you obeyed the sign, or you can die killing the crazy gunman. You might even prevail against him.

    2). Make those who pass these stupid “no gun†laws responsible for their decisions. The parents and family members of the victims should sue the pants off of the institutions who support such stupid policies. Sue the Jewish Center. Sue the school. Sue the principal of the school, the board of education, the police chief, the mayor, the governor, everyone. I’m certain there are plenty of pro-gun attorneys here. Put your skills to use. If these people do not understand morality and the Constitution, perhaps they will understand poverty.

    3). Teachers and principals aren't interested in CCW, push for an armed cop at the school during all school hours. If this takes some extra tax money, consider it cheap insurance. In police circles, the job of a “school resource officer†has always been characterized as a cushy job suitable only for those who don’t want to work on the streets. This needs to change and change right now.

    If the city has money to fly the mayor around, and work incessantly on perfectly good streets, they can put a police officer on duty at every school during school hours. And by the way, we need an armed and trained officer who will run to sound of the guns, not some fat donut-eating slob three weeks from retirement. You pay the tax that employs them and the customer is always right.

    Take a page from the Liberals. MAKE NOISE!!

    4). Many of the kids were actually corralled by the school officials into rooms ready for the gunmen. This lock down concept is again the product of “controllersâ€. A locked door will not dissuade anyone who wants to get in. As your kids get older teach them that rules are relative. My kids are told to ignore orders if the orders seem stupid. How easy is it to break down a door and kill a classroom in lock down? Their standing orders are to run like hell if they hear shots in a school. I have promised them that they will not get in trouble. Teachers would also be better served by telling the kids to run. One teacher mentioned that they cannot “lose control of the classroom like thatâ€. I told her that when the bad guy kicks the door in and begins shooting she will have already lost control. Teach to kids about cover, and how to RUN!


    Also as they get older teach them about ferocity and how to put a man down for good with what they have. Teach them how to bludgeon a head with a chair or a sack of quarters. Teach them how to stab a pencil into the gun man’s eye. Their safety is eventually their own responsibility as well as yours.
     
  19. Thank you for posting that waltham41! I think this should be printed out and stuck to every bulletin board one can find. At some point it will be read and understood and one more person will take responsibility for their own safety.

    Another thing to offset the gun control fruit loops is to keep stories like the following in the spot light. Please take the time to read a few of these by following the links.

    http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/14817480/detail.html

    This one brings tears to my eyes for what the brave son did for his parents.
    http://www.unionrecorder.com/local/local_story_353224844.html

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1935920/posts

    So the next time someone says we need more gun control smile and agree, then invite them to the range for some practice. For if we cannot control our aim when it matters, we could well die! If that doesn't work remember these few examples of reality. Challenge them to give an instance when an armed person bent on doing harm was subdued by an unarmed and unprepared subject.