No more threads on the FFZ's demise or the HPPF staff...

Discussion in 'Vintage Topic Archive (Sept - 2009)' started by Jones, Feb 10, 2008.

  1. So sayeth Jones. ;)

    If any more threads get started pertaining to the FFZ they will be deleted. Dont waste your time typing them.

    I really do care what you guys as members think about our forums here. You make them what they are, for the better or worse. Our job as HPFF administration is to moderate the worse. Sometimes that tends to ruffle feathers.

    Ill be the first to admit we may not always be right. But that isnt saying you can openly bash any particular staffer. I chose who I chose as fellow admins and mods because I felt they had the right stuff to govern the forums without bias or anything else that may not be for the betterment of the forums. This doesn't mean that I couldn't have made a bad decision on the staff I chose. But ill be the judge of that and I do keep tabs on them as well as everyone else as best I can.

    As far as the "Free fire zone" as I stated before I try to be democratic when it comes to our staff deciding the best for the forums here. Its also true that I can override any decision at any time regardless if the entire staff disagrees.

    But after reading the concerns of our staff about the effect the FFZ was having on our members (for the worse) I decided to close the doors for a while till I could come to a conclusion as to how to handle the situation.

    Of course the members that posted in the FFZ are angered, and those who didn't , couldn't care less. So a forum vote is somewhat pointless.

    So what im asking for now is a day or two so we can look into some other option's that takes care of the mod/admins concerns as well our members concerns on the FFZ's closing.

    For now everyone calm down. This will be sorted out soon enough.


  2. Joe Sixpack

    Joe Sixpack Guest

    Jones i feel for you buddy i really do.. you want to keep people happy but want to be fair and not overrule staff either..

    i would'nt want to be in your shoes right now cause no matter what you choose someones gonna be unhappy, i wish you good luck.

  3. Then show it by allowing us to have some input. As I said before those telling us to shut up and get over it get air time. The "other" side? We're told to pack up and leave.
  4. State your opinion in a decent manner and Ill take anything into consideration.

    Who told you to pack up and leave?
  5. Jones, I have stated my opinion several times and not once have I jabbed anyone in the eye. Now define decent! In a situation such as this our ideas of "decent" will surely vary.

    I cannot tell you everyone who invited us to leave as the threads conveniently vaporized. (I do recall one of the "mods" threatening Shootest to "choose your next words towards me very carefully" or he'd be gone.) But if you intend to sit back and say that no one invited others to leave, this is a lost cause. If that is the case you truly have selective vision and comprehension.

    I agree these posts got out of hand, including the couple I made in jest. But as I said before, no stream will flow higher than its source. When you figure out what that means you will have this problem under control. Trust me, I've been here and done this previously on my own sites.

    On a much more friendly note: How far is Fort Smith from Mount Vernon? I have some friends from Mt V and they often frequent a lake called Ferry Greers I think it is.
  6. Jag

    Jag Member

    To all members and especially the admins/mods:


    Thank you for this forum. I understand where you have to be in such a situation as this. I've been in leadership roles before myself and it isn't easy.

    I speak for myself when I say that I appreciate the work you guys do. Sorry for any hard feelings.

    Long live the HPFF!


  7. Has nothing to do with selective vision. Posts did get out of hand and then they "vaporized" for that reason. If something contained within one of those posts had these threats you speak of, then yeah I apparently missed them.

    I cant act upon what I cannot see.

    Oh and thanks Jag and everyone else for understanding...really appreciate it :)
  8. Uraijit

    Uraijit Guest

    I still don't understand why entire threads have to disappear. If someone makes threats, etc., delete the post. If a thread gets out of hand, lock it. Disappearing entire threads is very uncool.
  9. Urajit, exactly! You don't kill the person because they have a little cancer.
    I do find it curious how posts inviting people to leave had gone unnoticed yet those asking questions were not. Anyone with moderator powers happen to notice the F word spelled out in big letters? I bet that individual got a stern warning right?

    I'm going to drop it for now. It is extremely obvious where the administration and moderators loyalties are at. Hopefully they come to their senses and listen to and take into account what the membership has to say. In the meantime I have my own political and gun forum at my website people are welcome to visit until this mess blows over. Provided the powers that be don't see this as a threat I'll put up my link here. If they don't like that then I guess this thread is gone too.

    Register and discuss politics here
  10. People who threaten to leave if we don't put ffz back up immediatly were told that's their decision. A lot of things being twisted here.
  11. That is certainly part of the truth, but not all of it. People were repeatedly told to leave, invited to leave, however you want to word it, because of voicing an opinion. As I said before one moderator, whom you are very familiar with, went so far as to threaten a member by saying "choose your next words very carefully". In other words, get in line or get out.

    Sorry. I know I said I'd drop it and will now. But things are certainly getting twisted by more than the one half of the debate.
  12. I like the HPFF. It is unquestionably the best firearms forum around -- you know what I mean; we've all been to other sites (SKS Boards, KTOG, Glocktalk, etc.), and they can't touch the enterprise of the HPFF. One of the things that makes the HPFF a total forum is the Free Fire Zone, which is a plus over other forums. Granted, it does get out of hand, and I don't even see the half of it; but, it is one of those things that contributes to the uniqueness of the overall forum. Eliminating it will change atmosphere and contributions to the HPFF, but only slightly in one part. I'm sure a lot of folks will support whatever decision you make.
  13. GlockMan

    GlockMan Member

    Very Twisted indeed, I'M at work and on a lunch break so this will be very brief. Mass insurrection to overthrow the leadership of HPFF, Name Calling and Child-est Cheap Shots by those who have been placed on a Time Out were removed in whole as were all the threads which supported the actions of the HPFF staff over the locking of the FFZ zone. (This was done so no one would say the removals were one sided and unfair.) The staff voice concerns over FFZ and Jones made a decision to Lock the section. If the membership which was concerned over the closing acted and posted in a mature non-crap throwing way like this thread is proceeding then nothing would had been removed. Adults act like Adults even when things don't go there way and post in a adult manner, if you don't like what one Admin or Moderator had to say a simple P/M or E-mail to another member of the staff is the correct way to handle the situation without resorting to child-est behavior. This is a Gun related site and the FFZ when created by me in which I envisioned it to cover subjects about gun related issues and the challenging battle we face to keep are 2nd Amendment rights, who were the 2nd Amendment emeries and who were our political friends. The FFZ turned into a Anti Everything section with attacks and flames on every subject, first we torched the Muslims, then it spired out of control from there. Many state that people who may become offended should not enter or view the contents of the FFZ, this I say is impossible as anyone new too the forum will check out all sections and from reading the FFZ would believe we are all Bigoted, Racist, Anti Government, Anti Law Enforcement, and so on and so on. HPFF is not about these stances and the direction FFZ was taking just had to be curtailed to recover the forums Dignity and refocus on why HPFF is even here, too talk about Hi-Points and some related subjects. Wild Man I'M glad you can offer are members who visited (And Lived In) the FFZ a alternative location to go if they wish to post on such subjects.
  14. GlockMan

    GlockMan Member

    That was me and yes I did post the "choose your next words very carefully" remark, as I refuse to allow a claimed adult to act like a total child throwing a tantrum while making personal attacks and name calling. If you finished fully quoting my remarks it was a warning that his behavior was not going to be allowed any further and a Time Out would be issued if he continued. I never said I would ban anyone or asked them to leave. Another Moderator and a few members did state that if the members who were having such a problem with the closing of FFZ could not live without the section there were other places which offered the same theme as the FFZ so they could get there groove on there. No one flat out told anyone to leave or threaten to totally ban them.
  15. Uraijit

    Uraijit Guest

    To be fair, I've never seen anything "racist" posted in the FFZ. Maybe it was removed before I got to it.

    Either way, I guess if the mods don't want to hassle with the FFZ, then they don't want to hassle with it. End of story.
  16. 3daughters

    3daughters Guest

    If there is to be censorship upon other things that are not HP related, then you might as well get rid of the entire "other topics of interest" section to the forum. There were many good political discussions I saw in the FFZ and other interesting bits of information. Rarely, yes there were posts that were off-color or something similar, but this is the internet. People on the internet are going to have differing opinions, just like people in real life. You are going to have the people that hold tight to those standpoints and others that have an opposite or conflicting opinion.

    You guys have made your decisions and that is fine. Just consider that setting a precedent in that portion will make people expect things. When there is eventually a heated discussion over Rock Island versus Springfield (or similar) or even 4095 vs. 995, will that forum be locked and deleted? This is just starting on a path of further censorship of these forums. If these forums are to be turned private, then that should be done and only certain people allowed into it. If the forum holds itself out as being publicly viewable, then at some point, people will have differing opinions. Opinions are like you know what's. If the forum directors want all people on their forum to share the same opnion, then put potential members through a screening process and make sure that they agree with everything you said.

    You can delete this post if you want, just wanted someone to read my thoughts on it.
  17. Discussing firearms and saying glocks are junk is in no way the same as saying muslims are to blame for everything wrong with the world and need to be dealt with... Or am I wrong?we have never censored someones adult discussion of firearms, this is fine as long as the key words adult discussion are observed.
  18. GlockMan

    GlockMan Member

    Disagreement over Guns is nothing like the topics of the FFZ section and common decency is more of a rule here then the word censorship. People tend to be "Bigger then their selfs opinion and ego wise" on the Internet then they really are in real life as they know this conduct on the outside world would not be tolerated by others, but here in the faceless/nameless world of computer screens most will say things that they normally would not in open company. People forget about common values and conduct sometimes and we are trying to keep HPFF a place that anyone can visit from any walk of life. The FFZ really jumped on a lot of issues which would prevent and offend many from wanting to come back. Simple is better some times.
  19. 3daughters

    3daughters Guest

    I missed this whole Muslim thing and I do think what you said would be "over the line". But someone that wants to post something like that, could post that anywhere on the forum. It's like hanging a no gun sign outside a school and expecting criminals to see the sign and turn in their guns. If someone wants to post an opinion like that, they could and they could post it anywhere. I am sure the mods would jump on it.

    My point is this, closing that section will not stop some off-color comments or opinions on the rest of this forum. That is a fact. If a post or thread in a section/any section violates the rules that we all should have read, then it should be deleted. There is no doubt about that.

    I found the political discussions with people of similar interests as my own to be both interesting and inspiring. I have seen similar sections in other gun forums, but they are dominated by "gun snobs" and therefore, people I do not wish to associate with.
  20. There was plenty of good discussions there everyday. Please don't think we are saying that none of it belonged. But it was the folks who thought that it was their soap box that would harp on issues and force their thoughts down others throats that caused the problem. We know that typing out a hate speach rant can be done on any part of the forum, but when it was done in the free fire zone, and then deleted, all the people who wants to be victims started crying censorship. It comes down to this is JONES house. Respect the owner of the house as you would your neighbor. I realize there are plenty of people who want the FFZ back, but it just isn't going to happen. We have had far too many problems with it, gave far too many warnings, and it has caused far too many of these member against mod uprises that we have seen and keep seeing. I hate to be blunt, but it is gone, time to move along and accept it. It won't be the demise of the forum as some are hoping. We are a good community that can all get along so long as we act like adults and not try to be Jonny Rambo behind the keyboard. We need to all deal with it and move onto other topics and stop letting this consume us all with anger. I can smell a lock coming.