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….they have just never really fit me. I have to be a contortionist just to get my eyes to be able to line up the sights.

But I do like the 7.62x39 cartridge. I have been wanting a Ruger Mini 30 for a long time, and I like the SKS. Liked the CZ527, but did not like the backwards safety. Finally did get a Ruger American Ranch.

A short while ago the LGS had an AK in the rack that looked different from the run of the mill AK, it somehow looked smaller to me. I keld it and was surprised to find that the sights lined up perfectly. And it was not an AK, but an AKM. I know the difference, just had never held a stamped steel version before. All my experience had been with machined AK’s. This one also had plastic furniture. I think this is why I could get on the sights. The stock is smaller.

The rifle is made in Radom Poland, factory #11. I was curious as to how it could be imported, I thought maybe it was because factory #11 is not the factory that manufactures for the Polish military. But tat is not the case. It is also marked Pioneer, who I thought was the importer. I did think it was odd that Pioneer was marked in 2 places on the rifle. Pioneer in Radom Poland and Pioneer, Port Orange FL. Seems that Pioneer Poland gets the rifles from the Factory #11, de-mills them and sends them to Pioneer Florida, where disabled veterans install USA made parts.

The rifle shoots well, it’s not a MOA rifle, but then I did not expect an AK style rifle to be. But it does much better than any of the other AK style rifles have shot for me. Most likely because I can see the sights! I have not put it on paper, just sighted it in on the reactive targets at the range. Actually it did not need sighting. It shot point of aim from the first shot. Not shot it past 200 yards, but hits are really pretty easy out to 100 yards on the 8" plates. 200 yards? Not as easy, but the "ting" of the butter striking the plate is common enough, especially seeing the front sight post is as large as the target.

I initially had some trouble when cleaning it. Not with the breakdown, but with putting it back together. I literally could not get it to go back together. In desperation I read the manual. Seems the rifle dosent care to be finessed, but it you need to actually need to slap the cover to get it to lock in place. Since then, there has been no issues.

Reliability wise, it has been 100%. Between my brother, nephew, and myself, it has ate somewhere north of 2000 rounds. I had an ammo can nearly full of the steel cased 122 grain ammo, and my first case of 1000 has been consumed. 30 rounds of my Hornady 125 grain soft point reloads has been run through it, along with a few magazines of my brothers stash.

I still want the Ruger Mini 30, but the Polish AKM sure has taken away some of the urgency!
Air gun Trigger Wood Grey Gun barrel
 

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AK = Automatic Killer!?!
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The rifle is made in Radom Poland, factory #11. I was curious as to how it could be imported, I thought maybe it was because factory #11 is not the factory that manufactures for the Polish military. But tat is not the case. It is also marked Pioneer, who I thought was the importer. I did think it was odd that Pioneer was marked in 2 places on the rifle. Pioneer in Radom Poland and Pioneer, Port Orange FL. Seems that Pioneer Poland gets the rifles from the Factory #11, de-mills them and sends them to Pioneer Florida, where disabled veterans install USA made parts.
Greg, happy you like it.

Here is what I know about these rifles. Pioneer arms (the company) is kinda misleading the public... these are made in Radom, Poland (the city) at Pioneer arms plant. Not the world famous Radom Circle 11 plant. The FCG, Barrel and Muzzle device are US parts for 922r. The only issue I had with them is their manufacturing techniques. The Parts aren't Forged, which when it comes to AKs it is VERY important. So the trunions, bolt carrier will get deformed, and in worst cases crack. Cast trunnions are by manufacturer. I usually never condone buying a pioneer arms, RAS47, Riley defense Gen 1, PSA Gen 1, IO, anything MADE by Century etc

PSA and Riley have since moved to forged. Century IMPORTED AKs are fine, even with the Century monkeys installing the 922r parts.

You can watch video torture test that AK operators union did on them, it wasn't pretty, but he beats the crap out of them.

If it is something to take to the range, and something your not going to put thousands of rounds down range with, you should be fine. I wouldn't use it as a SHTF firearm or something that you plan shooting a shit ton.

With all that said, that is why the pricing is in the $700 range in todays market. Any milspec, CHF AK will cost you 1k+.

These have a niche in the AK market, something cheap to get new buyers in.
 
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AK = Automatic Killer!?!
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Yeah, most of my AKs have side rails. I do have 3? (I have to re-check) that are underfolders or side folders without side rails that I have optics mounted to the front upper handguard. The one pictured is my Hungarian AMD-65.

Air gun Trigger Line Machine gun Gun barrel


Oh, plus my Maadi and Norinco RPKs. Need to get some side rails on there though...

But yeah, absolutely nothing wrong with an optic on an AK, the purists out there will say differently lol.
 

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Yeah, most of my AKs have side rails. I do have 3? (I have to re-check) that are underfolders or side folders without side rails that I have optics mounted to the front upper handguard. The one pictured is my Hungarian AMD-65.

View attachment 76298

Oh, plus my Maadi and Norinco RPKs. Need to get some side rails on there though...

But yeah, absolutely nothing wrong with an optic on an AK, the purists out there will say differently lol.
I need to get out to the range. I have to run the hell out of the M&P, sight in then run the AK, the SR needs to flex its telescope, and a buddy wants to play with 20" AR on his new after I set up his new gongs. As payment he's bringing a box or two of clays and his new thrower so I'll have to break out the Ulti-Mag....

Oh! And somebody muffed up by approving me for a flex-pay plan, so I bought more gun stuff... 🤦‍♂️ The expensive part is out for delivery, the crucial component should be here Tuesday...
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Greg, happy you like it.

Here is what I know about these rifles. Pioneer arms (the company) is kinda misleading the public... these are made in Radom, Poland (the city) at Pioneer arms plant. Not the world famous Radom Circle 11 plant. The FCG, Barrel and Muzzle device are US parts for 922r. The only issue I had with them is their manufacturing techniques. The Parts aren't Forged, which when it comes to AKs it is VERY important. So the trunions, bolt carrier will get deformed, and in worst cases crack. Cast trunnions are by manufacturer. I usually never condone buying a pioneer arms, RAS47, Riley defense Gen 1, PSA Gen 1, IO, anything MADE by Century etc

PSA and Riley have since moved to forged. Century IMPORTED AKs are fine, even with the Century monkeys installing the 922r parts.

You can watch video torture test that AK operators union did on them, it wasn't pretty, but he beats the crap out of them.

If it is something to take to the range, and something your not going to put thousands of rounds down range with, you should be fine. I wouldn't use it as a SHTF firearm or something that you plan shooting a shit ton.

With all that said, that is why the pricing is in the $700 range in todays market. Any milspec, CHF AK will cost you 1k+.

These have a niche in the AK market, something cheap to get new buyers in.
When I have no idea about the history of a firearm I like to study them. Unfortunately not the case with this purchase. I bought first, then studied. At first I was appalled, all I initially found was bad. I thought I had thrown money away. But still, something bothered me. The Radom /Pioneer has FORGED trunions. All I was finding was complaints about the cast trunions in the rifles. I dug deeper and discovered that originally the rifles were produced with cast trunions, but somewhere around 2019 - 2020 the company apparently "listened to their customers" and started building rifles with forged trunions.

As to where the rifles are produced, they are in the Circle 11 plant. Fabryka Broni Lucznik (FB) formed in the 1920’s and was the first producers of the AK47 outside of Russia. They were the arms producers for the Republic of Poland. FB was made to produce Mauser rifles for the Germans during their occupation of Poland. When the Russians ousted the Germans, FB made Mosin’s for the Russians. The Russians are who named the plant Circle 11. FB moved to a new plant sometime in the 1990’s and began making the excellent Beryl rifles that the Polish Army still use today.

Here is where I get confused. I do not know if Radom and Pioneer are the same or not. But the Radom AKM rifles are made in the old Circle 11 plant and Pioneer has a shop in the town of Radom. As I noted they do not produce the Beryl rifles for the Polish Army.

As to the superiority of cast over forged, I concede that I prefer forged, but some of the strongest firearms made are cast. Most anyone will tell you that the Ruger revolvers are built like tanks and they are cast. Most of the 1911’s sold are cast. I am thinking the Philippine made ones, but many South American made ones are cast, as are the Ruger’s. At the end of the day is a quality cast firearm any worse than a forged one? I just do not know.

As for my Polish AKM…put another 300 rounds through it today. Bounced my little self sealing balls from the 25 yard line to out over the 100 yard berm, Spent the rest of the rounds ringing the steel plates at the 100 yard berm. 300 more flawless rounds. (y):)
 

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With all that said, that is why the pricing is in the $700 range in todays market. Any milspec, CHF AK will cost you 1k+.
The Wasr is a great milspec rifle with forged trunnions and a CHF barrel for around $800, still. I would recommend one to anyone.

A few weeks ago, I went to a friend's place for a shooting party, and at the end of the session, we moved away from the pit where we were shooting clay pigeons arrayed about its interior, and we went to another area to stretch the legs of our weapons. I actually managed to put some rounds into the black of a B-29 target at 288 yards with my Wasr using the irons. It was the first time I'd touched it in years. It's a very shootable and sufficiently accurate rifle.

Oh, and I was using 122gr Tula FMJ.
 

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AK = Automatic Killer!?!
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When I have no idea about the history of a firearm I like to study them. Unfortunately not the case with this purchase. I bought first, then studied. At first I was appalled, all I initially found was bad. I thought I had thrown money away. But still, something bothered me. The Radom /Pioneer has FORGED trunions. All I was finding was complaints about the cast trunions in the rifles. I dug deeper and discovered that originally the rifles were produced with cast trunions, but somewhere around 2019 - 2020 the company apparently "listened to their customers" and started building rifles with forged trunions.

As to where the rifles are produced, they are in the Circle 11 plant. Fabryka Broni Lucznik (FB) formed in the 1920’s and was the first producers of the AK47 outside of Russia. They were the arms producers for the Republic of Poland. FB was made to produce Mauser rifles for the Germans during their occupation of Poland. When the Russians ousted the Germans, FB made Mosin’s for the Russians. The Russians are who named the plant Circle 11. FB moved to a new plant sometime in the 1990’s and began making the excellent Beryl rifles that the Polish Army still use today.

Here is where I get confused. I do not know if Radom and Pioneer are the same or not. But the Radom AKM rifles are made in the old Circle 11 plant and Pioneer has a shop in the town of Radom. As I noted they do not produce the Beryl rifles for the Polish Army.

As to the superiority of cast over forged, I concede that I prefer forged, but some of the strongest firearms made are cast. Most anyone will tell you that the Ruger revolvers are built like tanks and they are cast. Most of the 1911’s sold are cast. I am thinking the Philippine made ones, but many South American made ones are cast, as are the Ruger’s. At the end of the day is a quality cast firearm any worse than a forged one? I just do not know.

As for my Polish AKM…put another 300 rounds through it today. Bounced my little self sealing balls from the 25 yard line to out over the 100 yard berm, Spent the rest of the rounds ringing the steel plates at the 100 yard berm. 300 more flawless rounds. (y):)
Yup just went to Atlantic Firearms website - they actually carry them now - so that is a good sign. Also, yes forged trunion!! Excellent!!.

They need to work on the bolt carrier - that may mushroom - if it starts to get an AK buffer - not from Ebay but a reputable supplier. It will help.

Rectangle Tire Automotive tire Automotive lighting Auto part


Back to the Pioneer Arms, here is a pic from Atlantic:
Air gun Wood Trigger Shotgun Gun accessory


The logo is not a circle 11 logo, that is just a pioneer arms one stating Radom, Poland. The serial number is all Pioneer so not a de-milled circle 11. So it is made in a pioneer Arms plant.

"All our AKM style firearms are build form 100% new parts produced in our plant in Radom, Poland."

From the Pioneer website here:

Once again, with all that said, forged parts DEFINETLY help and I hope it gives you years of service.

Great to hear they are listening to the masses!!
 
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AK = Automatic Killer!?!
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Oh! And somebody muffed up by approving me for a flex-pay plan, so I bought more gun stuff... 🤦‍♂️ The expensive part is out for delivery, the crucial component should be here Tuesday...
Credova?

Yeah, I did a purchase with them once, paid it off in 3 months interest free!!! But they can spread it out over 12 months.

Not a bad deal.
 

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A few weeks ago, I went to a friend's place for a shooting party, and at the end of the session, we moved away from the pit where we were shooting clay pigeons arrayed about its interior, and we went to another area to stretch the legs of our weapons. I actually managed to put some rounds into the black of a B-29 target at 288 yards with my Wasr using the irons. It was the first time I'd touched it in years. It's a very shootable and sufficiently accurate rifle.
WASR is a workhorse and should be everyone's first AK lol. It's an AKM also, stamped receiver, but they just run, period.

You did adjust the sights for that shot right? Not a holdover?

A lot of people, believe it or not, don't understand the sights... I don't know how lol.

But yeah AK to 300 yards is doable - after that its really a rainbow shot...
 
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Credova?

Yeah, I did a purchase with them once, paid it off in 3 months interest free!!! But they can spread it out over 12 months.

Not a bad deal.
Worse, Amazon. It's like the heard me talking crap about the review program. I keep getting messages to keep up the good work on reviews and answers, and they offered a 6- month interest free purchase of that Vortex RDS.
 
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….they have just never really fit me. I have to be a contortionist just to get my eyes to be able to line up the sights.

But I do like the 7.62x39 cartridge. I have been wanting a Ruger Mini 30 for a long time, and I like the SKS. Liked the CZ527, but did not like the backwards safety. Finally did get a Ruger American Ranch.

A short while ago the LGS had an AK in the rack that looked different from the run of the mill AK, it somehow looked smaller to me. I keld it and was surprised to find that the sights lined up perfectly. And it was not an AK, but an AKM. I know the difference, just had never held a stamped steel version before. All my experience had been with machined AK’s. This one also had plastic furniture. I think this is why I could get on the sights. The stock is smaller.

The rifle is made in Radom Poland, factory #11. I was curious as to how it could be imported, I thought maybe it was because factory #11 is not the factory that manufactures for the Polish military. But tat is not the case. It is also marked Pioneer, who I thought was the importer. I did think it was odd that Pioneer was marked in 2 places on the rifle. Pioneer in Radom Poland and Pioneer, Port Orange FL. Seems that Pioneer Poland gets the rifles from the Factory #11, de-mills them and sends them to Pioneer Florida, where disabled veterans install USA made parts.

The rifle shoots well, it’s not a MOA rifle, but then I did not expect an AK style rifle to be. But it does much better than any of the other AK style rifles have shot for me. Most likely because I can see the sights! I have not put it on paper, just sighted it in on the reactive targets at the range. Actually it did not need sighting. It shot point of aim from the first shot. Not shot it past 200 yards, but hits are really pretty easy out to 100 yards on the 8" plates. 200 yards? Not as easy, but the "ting" of the butter striking the plate is common enough, especially seeing the front sight post is as large as the target.

I initially had some trouble when cleaning it. Not with the breakdown, but with putting it back together. I literally could not get it to go back together. In desperation I read the manual. Seems the rifle dosent care to be finessed, but it you need to actually need to slap the cover to get it to lock in place. Since then, there has been no issues.

Reliability wise, it has been 100%. Between my brother, nephew, and myself, it has ate somewhere north of 2000 rounds. I had an ammo can nearly full of the steel cased 122 grain ammo, and my first case of 1000 has been consumed. 30 rounds of my Hornady 125 grain soft point reloads has been run through it, along with a few magazines of my brothers stash.

I still want the Ruger Mini 30, but the Polish AKM sure has taken away some of the urgency!
View attachment 76290
Why not just get an AR in 7.62x39??? Bear Creek Arsenal in SC has several models.
Gun barrel Trigger Gun accessory Air gun Fashion accessory
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·

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I really don’t like the AK ergonomics. I have one. I have 4 SKS’s. I really prefer the SKS, and the one that takes AK mags is really nice.
My Saiga is nice, even though unconverted. I can see a modern AK being decent, but my AR47 is nicer than all of them, IMHO.
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I really don’t like the AK ergonomics. I have one. I have 4 SKS’s. I really prefer the SKS, and the one that takes AK mags is really nice.
My Saiga is nice, even though unconverted. I can see a modern AK being decent, but my AR47 is nicer than all of them, IMHO.
I don’t much like the ergos either. Kind of what I was talking about when I noted I had to do a contortionist act to see the sights.

I also don’t like that it doesn’t let you know when it is dry. I have often wondered how many users of the AK heard a click as their last sound ever.

No, the AR platform is superior. But it’s not designed for the seriously tapered cartridges. To run the tapered cartridges it takes compromises. If I ever own an AR47, it will be one of the mutants.

Like you, I prefer the SKS. The Polish AKM is the only one of the many AK offerings that I have held that I have been compelled to buy.
 

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No, the AR platform is superior.
Debatable. AKs vastly outnumber AR15/M16:

"The M16 has also been widely adopted by other armed forces around the world. Total worldwide production of M16s is approximately 8 million, making it the most-produced firearm of its 5.56 mm caliber."

"There are 20 million AR-style weapons in circulation in the US, according to the NSSF."


There are well over 100 million AKs including variants in the world.

Now, besides straight numbers, superior can have multiple definitions.

Accuracy, modularity hands down M16/AR15 type weapons.

AKs are "superior" in my mind because they are durable and proven to work under any conditions. Don't need to "tune the rifle" with adjustable gas blocks or different buffer springs and weights. Accuracy suffers compared to an AR type, yes it does.

So it really depends what you are looking for.

If you shoot AKs enough, especially with optics, you will realize its more of a chin weld over a cheek weld...

Without optics, yes it is a very high cheek weld as the sight sit very close to the bore, one of the big reason the Galil is popular:
Air gun Trigger Machine gun Gun barrel Shotgun


They got an AK and it's simplicity and gave it some AR ergos. Genius.

Now I liken an SKS to a hunting rifle, no pistol grip etc. It is the style of rifle all of us older folk learned on, of course its going to feel more natural.

Just my two cents, but yeah... I'm an AK fan boy lol.
 

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I really don’t like the AK ergonomics. I have one. I have 4 SKS’s. I really prefer the SKS, and the one that takes AK mags is really nice.
My Saiga is nice, even though unconverted. I can see a modern AK being decent, but my AR47 is nicer than all of them, IMHO.
Saiga's are beautiful!! Yes I own a few AR47s myself, Pistols and Rifles. I still like my combloc AK's.

The AR platform, while very modular, wasn't really designed for the AK round. I have had to get extended firing pins for my AR47's as with some steel cased ammo has harder primers than we are used to. But like Greg said, "seriously tapered" rounds will work with the platform, but are not native to the platform.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Debatable. AKs vastly outnumber AR15/M16:
Just because there are more doesn't make them better

i have often called the AR the peasants weapon. It just works, even when neglected. the M16 needs to be looked after.

If I had an army of irregulars, yes, I would arm them with the AK. But if I had a professional army, I would arm them with the M16.
 
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Just because there are more doesn't make them better

i have often called the AR the peasants weapon. It just works, even when neglected. the M16 needs to be looked after.

If I had an army of irregulars, yes, I would arm them with the AK. But if I had a professional army, I would arm them with the M16.
So Ak's and Hi Points for peasants, M16 and Sig for the pros? As a self proclamed peasant, I can dig it.
 
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