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AK's ?? SAIGA's ?? Back in 2012, bought everyone except the 5.56
They were inexpensive then - until they were banned during the obama years.

View attachment 76327

In the AK vs AR discussion, as a two tour Vietnam veteran, I would
like to say that the M16's of the time did not like mud, muck, grit,
sand, etc., and were always needing to be cleaned. On the other
hand, the AK's worked ...and worked! It wasn't unusual for a
patrol to go out and return with AK's and all the ammo they were
able to strip off the NVA or VC. Their M16's were left left in their
hooch. Later in the war, M16's started arriving that were set for
3 round burst fire. Prior to that, 1 shot more than often wounded
than killed; whereas, the AK 7.62x39 was a one shot kill round.
I bought my IZ-132 (7.62x39 version) in 2012, just before Sandyhook, and I only paid $499 if I remember right. Even by pre-Obama standards, that wasn't bad at all.
 

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Spot on.

Type 56's, AKM's, AK47's, and SKS's; but it was an even mix of AK pattern to SKS patterned rifles. Location and supplier determined who got what.

A2 went to the USMC in '83 and Army in '86 to conserve ammo after all the "covering fire" (spray and pray) in Vietnam and they went back to FA with the A4 because 3-round burst sucks. Where's the A3 you ask? Talk to the Navy. They ordered A2's with A1 FCG's because 3-round burst sucks donkey dong... The A4 introduced the flat top upper with removable carry handle and an FA FCG ~insert heavenly music here~ and thank farkle for that because I got to use the A2 in boot and SOI and I can say, without hesitation, 3-round burst sucks... I joined in '96, hit the fleet in '97, and I loved my FA A4.
I ended up in one of those advisory teams, which became so prolific in the early years of the Iraq war, and we got issued the A4 model in the beginning. During the train-up, I shot one of my best qualifications with it on the pop-up range. Now, to clarify, I was always a sharpshooter with the M-4/M-16 and always missed expert by 2-4 on the pop-ups and always missed expert by 1 on the 25M target with the silhouettes sized to simulate the 25-300M targets, so this won't exactly be a story about an amazing feat of marksmanship in the big picture, but for me, it was a pretty big deal.

Anyhow, I ended up shooting a 35 on the pop-up range with the A4, missing expert by just one target. As I mentioned before, I was typically shooting 32-34 on the pop-ups with the M4 or M-16A2, so I was pretty happy.

That A4 had a heavier barrel than the A2 if I recall, so I think it was just a bit more inherently accurate. Mine, however, had a three-round burst selection instead of a full-auto selection.
 

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AK = Automatic Killer!?!
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and I only paid $499 if I remember right
Those were the days...

I remember buying AKs for $3-400. Still kicking myself not buying a Valmet for $800 back then... I mean I got a Molot Vepr and fully converted it, seems to be ages ago now, and thought the $700 I paid was ridiculous... Plus I have one of the Last EG kit guns brought in, omg is she beautiful too... I paid $900 for that one. The prices on those right now are ungodly..
 
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Our physical security MP’s had gotten the first gen Humvees and were getting the A2 rifle just as I was getting out in 90. They took them to the range a few times and had nothing good to say about them.

To be fair to the Vietnam guys….in the jungle, spray and pray was SOP. EVERYTHING was all about cover fire, suppressive fire, and dumping mags into the jungle at an enemy that was concealed as you got off the X.

When your gun ships put a few thousand rounds into a jungle around an LZ just to try to see if it’s hot, and then a whole lot more when you extract….you’re going to burn ammo.

My Saiga 7.62 was $170, my SIL payed $250 for the S12 that day. I bought my S12 a year later for about $350.
My AK was $365-ish, and my SKS’s were under $200, except the Russian, and the Sporter that takes AK mags, about $325 each.

I’ve put my Saiga carbine into the same skeletonized buttstock as the shotgun.
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
Wow! I feel like I am among babies! We had the M151, and our service rifle was the M16A1. The grand 1911A1 was our issue handgun, and we had Savage shotguns. We also had a few M14‘s hanging around, but I never saw one except for parade service.

Why do I feel so old ?
 
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We (the MP’s) had the 151 when I got on the site, but within two years they were phasing out. We had the 1008/1009 CUCV’s for leadership, and a RATT rig or two. Heaters and no rolling over, for the win! But 90% of our vehicles were little 5 ton 818 tractors and deuces.
 
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Those were the days...

I remember buying AKs for $3-400. Still kicking myself not buying a Valmet for $800 back then... I mean I got a Molot Vepr and fully converted it, seems to be ages ago now, and thought the $700 I paid was ridiculous... Plus I have one of the Last EG kit guns brought in, omg is she beautiful too... I paid $900 for that one. The prices on those right now are ungodly..
$900 for the FIME FM47-11 was a heck of a price for a fully converted Vepr. I wish the Russian stuff could still be purchased.

That new Zastava in 5.56 NATO sure looks good, though. It's a shame that it costs twice what the M90 was--and it was even adapted for AR magazines.

AK prices are just nuts. Many of the good ones cost so much that the Galil Ace and M+M M10 look better than ever. You get all the advantages of the AK with enhances ergonomics and accessory mounting capability.
 

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$900 for the FIME FM47-11 was a heck of a price for a fully converted Vepr. I wish the Russian stuff could still be purchased.

That new Zastava in 5.56 NATO sure looks good, though. It's a shame that it costs twice what the M90 was--and it was even adapted for AR magazines.

AK prices are just nuts. Many of the good ones cost so much that the Galil Ace and M+M M10 look better than ever. You get all the advantages of the AK with enhances ergonomics and accessory mounting capability.
My M+M runs circles around any other AK I've shot.
 

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My M+M runs circles around any other AK I've shot.
I'll bet it does. PSA just had blem 5.56 Galil Ace Gen 2 models on sale for $1499, and I couldn't resist. I would have gotten the 7.62x39 version, but those are like he's teeth right now, so I got the 5.56 one. I'm not too upset about that, though. The Ace can't use foreign mags because of 922(r) issues, so I would have ended up having to buy a bunch more P-Mags for it, instead of being able to use my existing AK mags.

All of my AR magazines, however, won't cause 922(r) issues.
 

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I'll bet it does. PSA just had blem 5.56 Galil Ace Gen 2 models on sale for $1499, and I couldn't resist. I would have gotten the 7.62x39 version, but those are like he's teeth right now, so I got the 5.56 one. I'm not too upset about that, though. The Ace can't use foreign mags because of 922(r) issues, so I would have ended up having to buy a bunch more P-Mags for it, instead of being able to use my existing AK mags.

All of my AR magazines, however, won't cause 922(r) issues.
The Galil Ace is a joy to shoot in my opinion, I love mine!! I do have the 7.62x39 version but I wouldn't be upset with the 223 either.
 
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My M+M runs circles around any other AK I've shot.
The M&Ms seem really nice, I have only played around with them at the shop here and there. Smooth action.
 
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The M&Ms seem really nice, I have only played around with them at the shop here and there. Smooth action.
The prices are crazy for them. I got a great deal on it. With case and palm island mags. Otherwise I wouldn’t have got it.
 

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You've gotta love those great deals when they let you get something you might not have otherwise gotten.
Especially lately for me... with the AP-5 and the Tavor... both kinda fell into my lap, prices were too good to say no.

Best part about the AP-5 I got for $1200 which already was a great price but then got the $200 century rebate on top of it.

The Tavor was used but about 1/2 off list price.

Plus mag deals galore going on now.

I got a free range bag and (3) mags from Springfield for buying the Hellcat Pro and now getting more free mags for Canik for buying the Mete.

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You don’t have to tune an AR at all, unless you decide to use oddball weight ammo, or different gas system lengths. Use a carbine gas tube, get a carbine buffer and spring, and shoot 55 grain all day long. Easy. Pistol length? Or a 9 mm AR? Well..that’s a bit specialized, but….Use a heavier buffer, easy. Oddball heavy ammo? Run a heavier buffer….if you need to. It may not matter.



The AR is also durable and proven to work under any conditions….if the user will simply lube it nice in a while. I haven’t cleaned an AR in over a year. My buddy cleans his when he orders a new case of ammo. And that’s the steel crap. To your point, the AR gets a bad rap because of untrained or lazy guys not lubing the guns. It doesn’t really take “more maintenance” and tests have proven the AR is more resistant to mud and dirt.

All that said, I’d love to play with a newer modern AK.
I trained with the M-1, super accurate and never a jam. Trained with the M-14, accurate but occasional jams. Trained with the M-16, accurate but often wouldn't knock down silhouettes and if it wasn't spotless it jammed... Thats why they added the charging handle....
I got an SKS and the 7.62x39 Norinco ammo was military. Pierced 2 layers of 1/4" plate easily. I rammed a 10 rnd stripper clip in it, threw a handful of sand into an open bolt, rammed it home and ripped off 10 rounds, NO JAM ! ! !
AK is also Kalishnikov action, just more advanced.
 

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I trained with the M-1, super accurate and never a jam. Trained with the M-14, accurate but occasional jams. Trained with the M-16, accurate but often wouldn't knock down silhouettes and if it wasn't spotless it jammed... Thats why they added the charging handle....
I’m sure you meant they added the Forward Assist. But that wasn’t a problem with the gun…that was the bean counter replacement ammo. Once they went to the proper ammo, the FA was pointless.

I got an SKS and the 7.62x39 Norinco ammo was military. Pierced 2 layers of 1/4" plate easily. I rammed a 10 rnd stripper clip in it, threw a handful of sand into an open bolt, rammed it home and ripped off 10 rounds, NO JAM ! ! !
AK is also Kalishnikov action, just more advanced.
The SKS isn’t a Kalashnikov action….it’s a Simonov design. In fact, Simonov beat out the Kalashnikov design in 1944, and that’s why the SKS was built. It was only after a new need for a fully auto “assault rifle” was discovered, that the AK was accepted.

Not sure the later Kalashnikov design is “more advanced”, it’s just different, as it was designed for a different role. Rotating bolt vs tilting bolt, long stroke piston vs short stroke, FA vs Semi only, and detachable mag vs non-detachable. Once it was modernized, it also got very easy and cheap to build.
 
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Reliability wise, it has been 100%. Between my brother, nephew, and myself, it has ate somewhere north of 2000 rounds. I had an ammo can nearly full of the steel cased 122 grain ammo, and my first case of 1000 has been consumed. 30 rounds of my Hornady 125 grain soft point reloads has been run through it, along with a few magazines of my brothers stash.

I still want the Ruger Mini 30, but the Polish AKM sure has taken away some of the urgency!
View attachment 76290
That rifle looks amazing.
I’m not a huge guy so I like a compact design.

I like the 7.62x39.
I also said I’d never buy an AK when I was a young Devil Dog.
They’ve grown on me.

i’ve milled built assembled shot and customized ARs.
Love them but, about ten years ago “when I could still get 1000 rds 7.62X39 For a hundred something bucks” I bought one (AK). Made in some former Soviet Country. Never had a malfunction. Shoots like a laser beam.
Then I bought an AMD-65.
Then an SKS and a Bullpup conversation stock for it.

I still have a Vietnam Era “60s” SKS still in the box with cosmoline.
SKS is also an amazing rifle.

I appreciate and have more respect for them now.
Especially when they’re not being shot at me.

I am not prejudiced. I love and own them all.
AKs ARs
GLOCKs and 1911s.
Wheelguns and Bottom Feeders.
 
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