not to start a war...ammunition

Discussion in 'General Hi-Point Discussion' started by sdbrit68, Sep 27, 2014.

  1. sdbrit68

    sdbrit68 Supporting Member

    To be honest, I have read about 25 sites on ammunition, just getting the basics down, not ballistics, military taught me enough of that.

    But the whole, brass versus steel cased, dirty vs clean,american vs russian

    I have heard the " AMerican amo for an American gun" or the steel case destroys your gun, yet the big TV show websites and such say its not true, the steel casing is softer than the material in your gun.

    The only thing that seems to make a little sense, is something about less compression in steel vs brass so it leaves more residue in the chamber ( is that what is meant by dirty ? )

    Realistically, I have a 1000 rounds of silver bear, for range practice and basic short range self defense, any issue with this ?
     
  2. jcwit

    jcwit Member

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    Being as I am able to reload pistol calibers for 2 to 3 cents a round and rifle calibers for 4 to 20 cents a round I haven't had need to buy any manufactured ammo for years, dirty or not.

    Years ago I stocked piled primers and powder when it was on sale. Had no idea things would turn into the madness we see at the present time, unbelievable!

    I cast my own from free lead, primers I have for less than $40 a sleeve of 5,000, most of my powder was purchased for 8 to 10 a lb. hazment incl.

    Life is good, to say the least.
     

  3. planosteve

    planosteve Lifetime Supporter

    As long as your firearm function with it shoot it. I have used both brass and steel cased ammo in my 4595 and other than the European ammo being a bit dirtier it works fine. It cleans out with no problem so I would not worry about it.
     
  4. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

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    Shoot it up. It won't hurt your gun.

    Your comment about dirty is right. But it depends on the gun, and besides, they make this stuff, it's called cleaning equipment. You shoot, then clean, and amazingly, the gun is like new!:p

    It's funny, I get that people notice that a specific ammo is dirty, but that's just a comment, not a deciding factor on good or bad.
     
  5. SteveC

    SteveC Member

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    +1 Shoot it up. I like Silver Bear. So does my carbine and my Mak.
     
  6. ArmyScout

    ArmyScout Supporting Member

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    Aluminum casings expand more than Brass
    Steel casings expand less than Brass.
    Aluminum casings can become stuck in the chamber and have spilt
    Steel casings allow more powder residue to get into the chamber and receiver and can be dirty.
    More important than whether the casings are AL, Steel, or Brass, is the quality of the casing. With some ammo made overseas, the casing quality is less than satisfactory. Just be careful what you shoot.
     
  7. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

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    What do you mean by that? Other than old surplus stuff that splits, but shoots fine....what cases weren't satisfactory?
     
  8. sdbrit68

    sdbrit68 Supporting Member

    what about the statements that you cant be accurate with things like silver bear ?

    Is it something where people are getting over silly about a hairs difference, or is there a real reality of a problem, keeping in mind, like many, I am a recreational shooter and have zero intention of entering any contests.

    I care about having fun at the range, and making sure if someone breaks in, there is only one story when the cops get here
     
  9. GoesBang

    GoesBang Supporting Member

    I have nothing against steel or aluminum cased ammo, but I don't shoot it. I prefer brass/nickel plated because it will be reloaded.

    I buy new factory loaded ammo just so I know that the majority of my spent brass will be "once fired" before it gets reloaded.
     
  10. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

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    If you are shooting bullseyes at 25 yards, you'll want better ammo. If you are shooting steel plates, the Silver Bear will hit them. If you are shooting SD range 3-10 yards, human torso or head sized targets, the ammo will be absolutely fine. In ARs, the Silver Bear will open up groups from 1 inch to 4-5 inches. But at 25 yards, that's only 1-1.25 inches, which is fine for SD groups.

    All of that is pistol info, BTW.

    Just FYI, this pic is a 995 using steel Wolf ammo, and brass HMC ammo at 25 yards. You can see the Wolf steel was great.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2014
  11. I have shot the tula ammo steel cased with out issues but the burnt powder has a different smell than other brands and seems to leave more residue on the gun than brassmax, Winchester or Federal.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2014
  12. The major problem I've seen with the Russian ammo is lack of consistency in some lots. I've had one lot that averaged one inch groups at 100 meters in my AR carbine. The next lot was three inches at fifty yards. I've seen simile from american companies over the years but they are much more consistent on the average.

    With that said my AR and my 995TS both shoot steel cases reliably. They are also usually fairly accurate in them. Even though I reload I don't want the hassle of crawling through the brush and briars to find cases since almost all of my shooting is field shooting.
     
  13. I shoot steel plates. I buy factory ammo at the lowest price I can find it at- steel case, aluminum case, brass case. As long as I'm hitting the plate, I am happy. Steel is dirtier, aluminum case has caused a few FTE. I shoot, I hit steel, I go home and I clean my guns, regardless what the casing was made of. And I'm happy.

    I say to the OP, just have at it and enjoy!
     
  14. ArmyScout

    ArmyScout Supporting Member

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    What did I mean by that? I meant "With some ammo made overseas, the casing quality is less than satisfactory."
     
  15. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

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    Come on old man, I'm not busting your chops, I really am trying to figure out what you mean.:p

    What do you measure your satisfaction with the case by?

    Are you saying it won't load or extract?

    Or that it wears things out too fast?

    Or does the casing quality affect group size?

    Is it a storage issue? Reloading issue? Range rule issue? Does it blow up or crack?

    Because to me, every overseas ammo I have ever bought has been perfectly satisfactory.

    But I certainly haven't tried them all, nor are my concerns the same as others, so I want to know, what do you think we should avoid, and why?
     
  16. TNTRAILERTRASH

    TNTRAILERTRASH Supporting Member

    I would question whether or not the steel case would place additional wear on the extractor. If a weapon was designed to use it (AK's, Mosins etc.) maybe the extractor is desinged different? I guess shoot some and look at the extractor marks on the spent case VS brass.

    First rounds through my 4095 were steel Tula.

    I thought the burn on the powder, quality of the powder, and quality/type of the primer was a factor? Just asking!

    ArmyScout are you saying a loose fit will collect more powder residue in the chamber area?

    Dirty ammo is rimfire! Not very complete combustion. It might have to do with the primer?
     
  17. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

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    Nah, it's the lube on the bullets (.22 are known as self lubed) and the low pressure combined with the straight cartridge wall and the fact that the bore, bullet and case are the same size, meaning there's much more blow back, no good way to really seal the chamber from that blow back, and thus...dirty, dirty guns.

    BTW...plated .22 bullets will be a touch cleaner, but may not be as accurate.
     
  18. TNTRAILERTRASH

    TNTRAILERTRASH Supporting Member

    Last time I burned up a bunch of rimfire my hand was turning grey. 250+rds. It was some weird looking un-plated name brand hollow points.
     
  19. planosteve

    planosteve Lifetime Supporter

    In my 4595 I mainly use cheap ball ammo, I have yet to find any that would not shoot under 2.5 inches at 50 yards, try that with a 1911. The only issue i have with Tula steel case is it is consistently low at both 25 and 50 yds when compared to any other cheap ammo I shoot. It is still accurate but low by 2 and 4 inches respectively. I have only used 4 boxes and they were from the same lot so it might of been just a bad lot.
     
  20. sdbrit68

    sdbrit68 Supporting Member


    Wow, there is seriously so much more to ammo than I knew. The Army, we shot what they gave us, end of story. My previous hand gun ( only had a short time) I just grabbed what was on the shelf at walmart.

    Now I am more serious, I am doing the shopping around and learning thing.

    Thank you all, I have much more reading to do.