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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
What's the barrel made of? 4140? (not 4150) Is it nitrided? Ruger doesn't like to nitride anything IIRC.
you talking SFAR? If so, then yes. 4140 steel, 5R rifling, and nitrided.
 
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I would dump the idea of converting a Ruger.

Heavy enough bolt? Do you know how to tune an AR? 9mm itself is too fast using a 3oz buffer. I had inconsistent LRBHO with my PSA. Heavier buffer fixed it. 9's are famous for breaking the bolt catch as is the .308. Why? The speed of the bolt. Buffers are available all the way up to 10oz. Playing with the buffer, and using a .308 buffer spring the tuning is a very achievable.

A Glock mag is larger in girth than their 9, and 40 mags. A Glock 21 is .45acp same girth as their 10mm. The problem I have read with 10 is the length of the cartridge. Cut an polish a feed ramp into the barrel with a dremel is what I did on my AR40.
Need to ask everyone else reading this thread, didn't I say that you can't convert a Ruger PCC to 10mm as my response to post #15 in this? (throw out there by someone)

We won't go into a discussion about chamber pressures and the various ways to deal with it, which from a design perspective, what Ruger did on this one is interesting.
 

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Looking at a video of the LC Carbine breakdown, I am not thinking there will be a 10mm in this platform either. The bolt is a 2 piece affair and it rides over the barrel. It is a straight blowback. Don’t think they will get a heavy enough bolt in there.
The split bolt, and the way it wraps around the barrel and extends forward, are the features that make me think it could be adapted to 10mm, for a blowback system it's about getting enough weight to slow things down enough to make it safe.

If you look at the thing, the heavy (split) bolt actually resembles the single piece big one you see on a Hi-Point as it also wraps around the barrel to do it's job, and the 1095 works and has been around a while now. Not sure exactly what will happen next on this, but don't think there will be a takedown version of the LCC. Between the bolt wrapping around the the barrel and how far forward on the barrel the moving parts are, guessing a takedown version was not a priority when coming up with the design.

From the gun designing perspective, I honestly thought Ruger would come up with something in the roller delayed blowback system for the PCC's bolt to fire the hotter stuff. When I first heard about the LCC and that it was introduced in FN 5.7 and had the magazine in the grip, I honestly thought it would be a Ruger 5.7 in a stock and with a longer barrel, using the same delayed blowback setup.
 

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I did stop by the LGS yesterday. She gave me a price $110 below MSRP on the carbine. That is in line I think, and there is a 57 pistol in the display case. Cheapest ammunition is Federal American Eagle at .85 cents per round. She also had FN ammunition on the shelf. $1.10 cents per round. Can not say that I am not interested because I am. But the math is dissuading me. If I bought both the pistol and carbine took them to the range with just the 4 loaded magazines with the cheapest ammunition, it would cost me $68.00. Would not be doing that too much.

As to the reloading, there is a coating on the 5.7 cartridges. The purpose of the coating is to help the cartridges feed. The coating is removed and can not be replaced. This is my concern and the reason for the operational failures of the reloaded 5.7x28. The cartridge is not designed to be reloaded. I am surprised they are not Berdan primed.

As to having a cartridge in my inventory that is not all that reloadable, I already have them. 9mm Luger, 223 Remington, and 350 Legend. With todays prices and scarcity of components (mainly primers)I can buy the range ammo for these cartridges about as cheap as I can reload them. I save my components for my premium rounds. For example, Hornady American Whitetail 170 grain Spire Points cost me about $1.35 per round. I am reloading the same 170 grain spire point for about $0.50 per round. The Winchester white box 147 grain FMJ range ammo is costing the same $0.50 per round.

What really got my attention at the LGS was another new Ruger that I was not aware of. The SFAR rifle in 308 Winchester. I did pay the deposit on it and will be getting the first one that comes in stock at the LGS.

A short video from Ruger describing the new rifle.
Not being a reloaded myself, I haven't personally experienced the primer shortages people talk about, so I didn't realize that they'd caused reloading to get so expensive. When you put it the way you do, it sounds like the 5.7 would be something that you just don't reload in any case.

With that being said, since you're on the fence about it, the only question you can ask yourself is what you want the 5.7 carbine for. Is there a capability objective in mind? Is it for the purpose of adding another neat caliber to the inventory?

Capability-wise, the 5.7 carbine would certainly give you the ability to shoot something from a PCC platform a lot farther than you might otherwise be able to. If that was something you wanted out of it, it might be worth buying just for that reason. Since ammo is expensive, you could keep down the cost of your range trips by practicing more deliberately at longer distances. Treat a trip to the range with it more like you would treat a trip to the range with a .308.

And speaking of .308s, it sounds like you've made a good decision with the other Ruger in any case. With that being said, keep my other comments in mind about the 5.7 carbine if you ever have thoughts about revisiting it.
 

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Not being a reloaded myself, I haven't personally experienced the primer shortages people talk about, so I didn't realize that they'd caused reloading to get so expensive. When you put it the way you do, it sounds like the 5.7 would be something that you just don't reload in any case.

With that being said, since you're on the fence about it, the only question you can ask yourself is what you want the 5.7 carbine for. Is there a capability objective in mind? Is it for the purpose of adding another neat caliber to the inventory?

Capability-wise, the 5.7 carbine would certainly give you the ability to shoot something from a PCC platform a lot farther than you might otherwise be able to. If that was something you wanted out of it, it might be worth buying just for that reason. Since ammo is expensive, you could keep down the cost of your range trips by practicing more deliberately at longer distances. Treat a trip to the range with it more like you would treat a trip to the range with a .308.

And speaking of .308s, it sounds like you've made a good decision with the other Ruger in any case. With that being said, keep my other comments in mind about the 5.7 carbine if you ever have thoughts about revisiting it.
I've had no need to buy any primers, bullets or powder. I have enough stored up luckily. Looking at the prices make you cry.
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
I've had no need to buy any primers, bullets or powder. I have enough stored up luckily. Looking at the prices make you cry.
I never ran out, but I did run low. Only a few hundred SPM before I found the one recently. LPP and LRP I had plenty of, and I got down to 900 SRP. Stocked up again now but where they were costing me 3 or 4 cents a piece, they are now running 7 to 9 cents each.
 

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I've had no need to buy any primers, bullets or powder. I have enough stored up luckily. Looking at the prices make you cry.
I never ran out, but I did run low. Only a few hundred SPM before I found the one recently. LPP and LRP I had plenty of, and I got down to 900 SRP. Stocked up again now but where they were costing me 3 or 4 cents a piece, they are now running 7 to 9 cents each.
While primers aren't a need of mine, percussion caps for my BP revolvers are. I bought a case of 1000 CCI #11 caps pre-crisis for about $.08 each, which was a good price. I ended up shelling out $.16 a piece for 1000 after shipping and hazmat fees for a case of #11 magnums a while back. Since I don't shoot as much black powder as I do my modern stuff, those should last a good few years along with the ones I have left from my prior batch.
 

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I'm waiting for the 10mm version of the LCC, looking at the design they should be able to get a heavy enough bolt in the thing, something that Ruger can't do with the PCC but many have asked for. Been staying away from the FN 5.7 in general because of the issues for reloading and ammo costs that have been brought up.
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TNW Aero in 10mm.
 

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Had I known the short comings of the 10mm vs. The .40 carbine, i'd have gotten the .40.
But I did just purchase this Ruger carbine.
There are a few people that are experimenting with replacing the case coating with enamel spray paint.
The coating on the 5.7 case also helps delay the action a tiny fraction.
So don't go tumbling the coating off like I did first.
it seems the weak point in reloading it is the case head and minor powder variation thing.
I wish somebody would produce good inexpensive 5.7 ammo, like PSA when they get that steel case ammo plant up and running.
 

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I just think it's hilarous that Hi Point makes a blow back 10 mm, and no one else seems to think it's worth their time to develop it in their guns.
Think this really comes down to the design philosophy, where Hi-Point is about simplicity and reliability and a 10mm blowback is pretty easy to do by just adding more metal and weight to the castings, compared to a more efficient and elegant finely machined design, that is a lot harder to modify to get it to do something else than the original purpose and requirements.
 

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Think this really comes down to the design philosophy, where Hi-Point is about simplicity and reliability and a 10mm blowback is pretty easy to do by just adding more metal and weight to the castings, compared to a more efficient and elegant finely machined design, that is a lot harder to modify to get it to do something else than the original purpose and requirements.
Just to get this info into the thread:
Rectangle Mammal Font Magenta Pattern

Rectangle Font Magenta Logo Paper

3/4lb difference between 995ts and 1095ts. There seems to be a lack of detail on the Hi-Point site.
 

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........From the gun designing perspective, I honestly thought Ruger would come up with something in the roller delayed blowback system for the PCC's bolt to fire the hotter stuff. When I first heard about the LCC and that it was introduced in FN 5.7 and had the magazine in the grip, I honestly thought it would be a Ruger 5.7 in a stock and with a longer barrel, using the same delayed blowback setup.
That's what I daydream about from HP. More specifically, a 30 Carbine carbine (3095ts).
5.7x28 cartridge overall length 1.594"
30 Carb cartridge overall length 1.680
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
Interesting video about reloading the 5.7x28. I had not seen this one before. I found it interesting that with the coating mostly removed that there were malfunctions, with the coating intact there were no malfunctions. With the coating entirely removed, there were no malfunctions. Interesting…
 

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I just think it's hilarous that Hi Point makes a blow back 10 mm, and no one else seems to think it's worth their time to develop it in their guns.
I have the 10mm hi-point and have to admit that I thought with the soft cheek piece and fancy looking recoil pad it would shoot fairly soft compared to say a 5.56 or my 300 Ha'mr. The first time I shot it I thought it was gonn'a rip my beard off! My 10mm 1911 has less recoil.
 

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Interesting video about reloading the 5.7x28. I had not seen this one before. I found it interesting that with the coating mostly removed that there were malfunctions, with the coating intact there were no malfunctions. With the coating entirely removed, there were no malfunctions. Interesting…
That is interesting. I've never tried to totally remove the coating. I have tried spraying moly on some older cases to see if it would make a difference. It didn't seem to. It seems the carbine may be fun to shoot if prices ever come down to earth. I feel it's too much work to reload for a full day at the range with both the pistols and the carbine. If you want to shoot distance you may as well just shoot it's big brother, the 5.56 (or.223) which is WAY cheaper.
 

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That is interesting. I've never tried to totally remove the coating. I have tried spraying moly on some older cases to see if it would make a difference. It didn't seem to. It seems the carbine may be fun to shoot if prices ever come down to earth. I feel it's too much work to reload for a full day at the range with both the pistols and the carbine. If you want to shoot distance you may as well just shoot it's big brother, the 5.56 (or.223) which is WAY cheaper.
I was thinking about the coating wearing off. I have the Frankfort tumbling media with rouge. And my brass comes out smooth and coated like wax coated. Would that help these with feed issue? I don't reload 5.7 so I don't know. Its a lot less hassle then my usual media and wax added. Costs more but lasts a long time.
 

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I'm not familiar with that media. I know my sonic cleaner with the right mix works well but I worry more about brass failure than about the coating. That really hasn't been an issue for me. My regular brass I tumble with crushed walnut shells with cut up pieces of dried polishing compound.
 

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Build one. I built a 40 that takes Glock mags. The BCG is the same as the 40 for the 10. Just need a different lower for the 10mm/.45 mags.

@greg_r NEVER BUY THE FIRST EDITION FROM ANYONE ESPECIALLY RUGER!!!!!!! If Ruger has built one others are in the works from other manufacturers.
This is a TNW Aero 10mm that takes Glock mags. The mag shown is aftermarket and I do prefer the OEM.
Air gun Black Machine gun Trigger Gun barrel
 
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