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Ok I just got a Feg PA-63. Its chambered in 9mmx18mm . What im wondering is can you safely fire 380 auto out of it?? seems like it would kinda fall into the 357/38spc kinda situation. I hand cycled some rounds through it they battery and eject just fine, or atleast seem too. Mak 9mm is just hard to come by here and I was looking for a viable option.
Thanks for the info
 

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Ok I just got a Feg PA-63. Its chambered in 9mmx18mm . What im wondering is can you safely fire 380 auto out of it?? seems like it would kinda fall into the 357/38spc kinda situation. I hand cycled some rounds through it they battery and eject just fine, or atleast seem too. Mak 9mm is just hard to come by here and I was looking for a viable option.
Thanks for the info
Congrats on acquiring the PA-63, it's a fine little pistol.

Just because you can do something doesn't make it a good idea. The .380 is smaller diameter and I don't know if it would reliably cycle the action. 9Mak (9X18) ammo is cheaper than .380 and easy to come by. Order 500 for around $100 plus shipping and don't even consider using ammo not meant for it.
 

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What NDS said!
 

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.380 - 9x17mm

Makarov - 9x18mm

9mm Luger - 9x19mm


Won't work right, like above posters have said.
 

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The 380 cases can split, this will be "A VERY BAD THING". 9mm Mak is larger in diameter and of course longer. 9mm Mak ammo should be easy to find and much cheaper than 380.

I just picked up 500 rounds of Brown Bear 94gr loads at http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/

I paid $97.95. I live in Houston so its a short drive in the country to go pick up.

Some people like the Zinc plated Silver Bear better. I find if you clean every 200 rounds or so you don't get any lacquer build up in the chamber. You save about $0.50 a box over Silver Bear or Wolf.

I feed 2 Maks, 2 CZ-82s, 1 PA-63, and 1 P-64 all with Brown Bear ammo.

Ron M.
 

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Ok, here's a few notes:

The .380 Automatic Colt Pistol (ACP) cartridge is also designated by its dimensions as the 9X17mm. This makes it one millimeter shorter than the 9X18 Makarov cartridge in the case length. In addition, the 9X18mm Makarov fires a .363" diameter bullet, while the .380 ACP fires a .355" diameter bullet (the same diameter as the 9X19mm--9mm Luger--cartridge). A quick calculation on my computer's calculator indicates a .008" (eight one-thousandths of an inch) difference in the diameter of the bullets (the 9X18 Makarov bullet being the larger--.363"--one). I know these specs by heart, since I reload both cartridges for my .380 Hi-Point and Lorcin L-380 pistols and my PA-63 and P-64 9X18 Mak pistols.

Due to the difference in both the case length and the bullet diameter, I would NOT officially reccomend shooting the .380 ACP cartridge out of a Makarov pistol.

...However...

While it would not be a wise idea to shoot the .380 Auto ammo out of the Mak pistols with any kind of regularity, I would like to go out on a limb here and propose something. After I clarify what I am talking about, I will add a couple of links to this post showing some evidence that points to the fact that .355" bullets will fire safely out of a Mak-style/caliber pistol. DO NOT GET THE WRONG IDEA: I AM NOT RECCOMENDING THAT YOU SHOULD EVER FIRE A .380 ACP OR A 9mm LUGER CARTRIDGE OUT OF A MAK PISTOL WITH ANY REGULARITY OR WITHOUT EXERCISING EXTREME CAUTION; DUE TO THE AVAILABILITY OF DEDICATED 9X18mm AMMO, IT WOULD BE PRUDENT TO USE THIS AMMO IN YOUR MAK PISTOL AND FORGET ABOUT SHOOTING ANY OTHER 9mm AMMO IN YOUR GUN! Nevertheless, I do believe something should be admitted about these cartridges and the guns that fire them.

The .380 Auto and the 9mm Luger rounds could, in theory, be fired out of a Mak pistol, even with the aforementioned cartridge differences. With the .380 ACP in a Mak pistol, you would probably end up with some feed issues and/or split cases, primer blowout, etc., as you would also probably find with 9mm Luger ammo. The 9mm Luger is one millimeter LONGER than the 9X18 Mak, and this will probably cause a Mak pistol to have a failure-to-feed and properly seat the cartridge in the firing chamber, so each round would have to be hand-cycled/hand-seated into the weapon. The weapon, in theory, with a .380 ACP or 9mm Luger round chambered should be able to fire. A key point here: while the .355" bullets might be alright, again, in theory, to shoot in a Mak pistol, 9X18mm Mak ammo should NEVER be fired in a gun chambered for the smaller-diameter 9mm bullets!!! Due to the 9X18mm bullet being LARGER in diameter, firing such a round in a gun chambered for one of the smaller-diameter 9mm bullets while cause the larger-diameter Mak bullet to do one of three things. Either the Mak bullet will lodge in the barrel, the round will exit the barrel and create excess wear on the rifling and the rest of the gun, or the increased friction and seal between the larger-diameter Mak bullet and the smaller-diameter 9mm barrel will create such high pressures that the gun could "ka-boom" or blow apart.

Alright, here's the links I was talking about that show some cases of this scenario (firing smaller-diameter 9mm ammo in a Mak-style pistol) actually being quasi-safe:


(read some of the comments for people pointing out problems with doing this)

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?p=109486

(another gun forum where they discuss this video)

Here's a link on how to transform a 9X19mm brass cartridge into a case that will fire in a Mak pistol:


On this smattering of links (and there is not a lot of material on the 'net about this topic), I believe we can safely say that it would be a bad idea to try to shoot 9mm cartridges out of a Mak pistol ASIDE from the 9X18mm cartridge. If you choose to do so, you assume all the risk involved yourself, and I certainly WOULD NOT reccomend trying this. However, there may come a dire time where you might consider such an action; for example, if you had a Mak in a defensive situation, ran out of 9X18mm ammo, found a loose 9X19mm cartridge in your pocket, and were forced to shoot it out of your Mak to save your life, then I think that this might be a reasonable trade-off in risks (i.e., you either risk a possible cartridge/gun failure by shooting the 9X19mm out of the Mak and hurt yourself in the process OR possibly die from a bad guy shooting you). Outside of such extreme cases, PLEASE DON'T ATTEMPT THIS!!!

I may have more to add to this post at a later date. Check back for an update (I'm posting this in the Other Calibers board (in a seperate thread) since it has some good info for everyone to review). Thanks for reading!

Cheers,

Jag 8)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks Jag great info aand exactly what I was looking for. Another reason I was curious is I know they make a 9mm cylinder for my Blackhawk 357mag. So if you could fire 9x19, 38spl, and 357 mag out of the same barrel seemed like 9x17 and 9x18 would work too. Now I realize this is a much simpler concept when you start talking about revolvers. AND I saw some 380 conversion barrels for the PA-63 and from what I read the barrel is all that needed to be changes out. This made me think that the preasure of the 380 should be able to operate the action on the pistol, I would just have to worry about split brass and bulged brass if I didnt do the barrel change. Im not advocating firing anything but the designated ammo from any firearm. I just was curious for the reasons stated.
 

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I know you weren't advocating firing any ammo not designed for a particular gun in such a gun, 98pointsix, but I just figured I'd cover my bases on this topic so as not to give anyone the wrong idea about what I was talking about. I'm sorry if I came across sounding harsh or condescending; that was NOT my intention.

I have started a second thread about this topic for further discussion. Check back there soon...I will have some updated info for everyone, one way or another, on this subject...

Later!

Jag 8)
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Yeah I cought your meaning. A person just feels the need to put a disclaaimer on this kinda stuff I would hate to be the reason a person was injured or worse, Im sure you feel the same. Looking foward to your info.
 
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