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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Just looking for info, does anyone own a Phoenix Raven that they are certain did not have a magazine safety installed at the factory? I've heard rumors that both variations exist, but all I've seen, including parts lists from 1991 (the first year of production), have or show a magazine safety.

I'm thinking only the very earliest examples would have been made without one, so I just over paid for what I think was the 857th Phoenix Raven to leave the factory. My guess is that it's early enough to have left over parts from Raven Arms and might not have the ability to accept the safety. I have the instructions from one in the 3,002,000 range and by then the magazine safety was shown on the parts list and described in the instructions.

If not, no biggy, I'll let the world know what I find out about 3,000,857 when I get my hands on it in a week or so.
 

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you dirty dog. I bet that was one I was looking at HaHa!

Just kidding. I had to give up ravens due to storage space issues. All of mine had the mag safety ( which I remove ).You got an early one most likely. Congrats!

excuse me..I gave them up because they were as dangerous as a black mamba. Also jammed every round and launch slides. One slide broke just by chambering the first round....on a NIB pistol! So I replaced the slide and the trigger fell out. When they did fire the bullet would turn and come back at me after about 5 yards ( the effective range of 25acp). I thought I was under attack. I immediately set the raven down when it spun on its own and went full auto on me. Luckily my haynes tshirt stoped the bullets cold because I was 6 yards away.....one yard past the ballistic potential of 25acp..........one yard. Luckily my speed and tactical training kicked in that day. 1 yard too slow and I would not have made it home alive that day....the Playboy mansion BTW. We ended up celebrating that night...... all my playmates surrounding me....... cold 40oz in one hand .....gold Lorcin 380 in the other. "Magnumnut, you have a phone call - Ms Universe" ........."Who is it baby? - Me AKA magnut" .......... "Its Jim and Bob again ....thats jim waldorf and bob Lazaar for the young guys out there "........ "Put em on hold and bring me another 40oz woman...and clean the toilets!" -magnut..........Yes Sir Magnumnut! - Ms Universe.

How a bad day can turn around end being a good one. Have faith and never give up.
 

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@bumthum I have never seen a Phoenix Raven without a magazine safety. I remember when I first joined the (now defunct) BJJA forum that it was a common belief that the magazine safety was "rare" but now I think just the opposite is true. So, IMO you might have captured a very rare bird!
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
@bumthum I have never seen a Phoenix Raven without a magazine safety. I remember when I first joined the (now defunct) BJJA forum that it was a common belief that the magazine safety was "rare" but now I think just the opposite is true. So, IMO you might have captured a very rare bird!
We'll have to see. I tried a different transfer FFL and they use a different process than I'm used to and it is not going smoothly. Given how poor shipping things is going this season, I suspect I might be waiting a long time to finally get my hands on it.

Again, my theory is that only the very earliest Phoenix Ravens would have been made without the magazine safety, if any were made that way at all. Raven Arms ended production after their fire in 1991 and Phoenix Arms started production, of a virtual part-for-part copy, in 1991. I believe the early Phoenix Ravens used whatever components that could be salvaged from the Raven Arms factory. That might include unmarked slides and frames that were originally contracted by Raven Arms, but I need a very late Raven Arms MP-25 and this very early Phoenix Raven to try to piece that part of the puzzle together.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
So, it appears that even early Phoenix Raven pistols had magazine safeties. As noted above, this one is serial number 3,000,857 which, if my reckoning is correct, makes it the 857th Phoenix Raven produced and it has a magazine safety in the same form as another Phoenix Raven I own that is roughly 199,000 pistols later in production.

This pistol does have a very late Raven Arms magazine that appears to be original to the pistol, so my assumption that some left over Raven Arms components were utilized is likely correct. Without a lot more examples to compare, I can't say that any substantial differences exist in the fire control components or small parts, so their original origin would be difficult to know.

Interestingly, this example has the pink-pearl stocks, with an early style slot for the magazine safety on the back of the right panel, but UV exposure and, perhaps, residue from some smoked substance turned the stocks a sticky tan color. When I cleaned them and tried polishing out the stains, there sort of show that they were originally pink, but that color is only really obvious on the back side of the panels.

One other initial note, the frame on this early pistol was die cast by LANSCO, the same die-casting company utilized by Raven Arms towards the end of production, my later Phoenix Raven was die-cast by International Die Casting. The change in sub-contractors is interesting, but apart from the markings, I didn't really notice any differences between the frames themselves... perhaps Phoenix Arms didn't iterate the design much throughout production, unlike Raven Arms which went through several major and many more minor iterations of the pistol.




 
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