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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I picked up my Mossberg MC2sc from the LGS last nigh. I'm taking it to the range tonight.

It's "Optics Ready" and I will be putting one on. I just need to decide which.

Right now, I'm considering these two:
  • Holosun HS507K X2 (for the reticle)
  • Crimson Trace CTS-155 ( for the price)
@Visper had some suggestions that I want to hear.

Anyone else?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
The Swampfox Liberty looks like a contender as well.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

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I would spend the money on the circle dot. The Swampfox units have FAR less run time, and the Kingslayer is button on, but has the circle dot, while the Liberty and Justice are shakers, but ONLY a dot.

Holosun sells, via Primary Arms, a unit with an Inverted V pointer, and a circle that is so large, you ONLY see it when you are pointed off target a lot. ACSS Vulcan. Just an FYI, I’m not sure I like the idea...but it’s interesting.

Holosun HE507C-GR-X2 Pistol Green Dot Sight - ACSS® Vulcan™ Reticle
 

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I have a few Red Dot sights on my rifle and on a crossbow.

I've been interested in putting one on a pistol. Shot my neighbor's tricked out full sized performance model S&W a few weeks ago.

My local indoor gun range had a few of them in their rental case and then one day they were all gone. Turns out too many people were not used to how they work and were bouncing rounds off the ceiling.

Just read across this article a few days ago. I've ordered stuff for my Walther PPQ M2 from Ben Steger

 

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AK = Automatic Killer!?!
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So I picked up my Mossberg MC2sc from the LGS last nigh. I'm taking it to the range tonight.

It's "Optics Ready" and I will be putting one on. I just need to decide which.

Right now, I'm considering these two:
  • Holosun HS507K X2 (for the reticle)
  • Crimson Trace CTS-155 ( for the price)
@Visper had some suggestions that I want to hear.

Anyone else?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
The MC2SC has a Shield RSMC cut. The more you get into these things the more you will realize they need to standardize on these patterns lol.

Here is a great site for reference:

Anyway here are my thoughts on the optics (all these I have or have tried):

Holosun HS507K X2
Product Font Output device Line Gadget

The Holosun you selected is excellent. Beautiful glass and I love the circle dot - great for conceal and those close and personal encounters. I do like the fact that it has on and off along with shake awake and auto shut off. You are also paying for all those options, but well worth it. Can use standard iron sights as it sits nice and low for co-witness. Side tray battery compartment which is excellent for changing out batteries without re-zeroing the optic.

LIFETIME WARRANTY

$289.00 - expensive but worth it in my opinion.

Crimson Trace CTS-1550
Automotive lighting Automotive exterior Bumper Font Auto part

The Crimson Trace is ALWAYS on which is good for CC but at the same time bad cause always using battery. I've used the same battery for 4 months now and it is still going. Still not bad but just a single 3moa dot I believe. It goes into sleep mode when the cover is put on it. Very durable optic though. Only issue I had with it was it did not fit the RMSC cut I had it intended for. It was a Glock 43 cut slide - it did not fit (see picture) that nub stopped it from fitting. Mossberg accounted for that since they show it with that optic (see pic). Bolt pattern fits RMSC fine. I have a slide with RMR and RMSC bolt patterns (GGS - Grey Ghost Precision) and I have that optic on that slide. Bottom load battery so you will have to re-zero when you change out batteries.

Bicycle part Automotive exterior Rim Camera accessory Auto part


Hand Gesture Finger Bumper Automotive exterior


Can use standard iron sights as it sits nice and low for co-witness.

$116.00 - absolute steal.

LIFETIME WARRANTY

Also here are a few other contenders:

Salvo Optics – SRC – Micro Red Dot
Toy Rectangle Plastic Peripheral Composite material


I really like this one, Zaffari has them on sale from time to time, got mine for $125.00 and it is worth twice that. This one also has manual on and off along with shake awake and auto shut off. At $199 not on sale it is still a good optic for the money. Now Holosun still wins for a CC red dot because of the circle dot reticle, I really wish they would make this in a 6moa and it would be awesome. Can use standard iron sights as it sits nice and low for co-witness. Bottom load battery so you will have to re-zero when you change out batteries.

LIFETIME WARRANTY

$199.00 unless you find it on sale.

Sig Sauer Romeo Zero
Input device Rectangle Automotive lighting Gadget Font

It's a Sig, what else needs to be said. It comes with either 3moa or 6moa (get the 6) red dot. This one also is always on but is motion activated and auto shutoff. You can manually turn the red dot off but it is a pain to get to the button, its on the inside portion bottom of the lense. Bottom load battery so you will have to re-zero when you change out batteries but Sig boasts a 10 year battery life - we shall see!!! Sits a tad higher than the others so you may have to get mid-height suppressor sights if you want to co-witness. It is REALLY close but I chose to go with mid-height on one of my Glock 43's and just left the sights as is on my P365X. So instead of bottom 1/3rd it is closer to absolute co-witness on that Glock 43 - this could be because the cut on that particular slide was more shallow. I will have to measure but you would think Sig would take that into account on a CC optic.

LIFETIME WARRANTY

$170.00 range - great pricing.

Finally we have,

Swampfox Sentinel Micro Reflex Red Dot
Font Gadget Electronic device Auto part Wheel


Great optic, has all the same as most of the others, shake awake, auto shutoff, manual on/off but with a 3 moa dot. Can use standard iron sights as it sits nice and low for co-witness. Bottom load battery so you will have to re-zero when you change out batteries.


LIFETIME WARRANTY

$220 price range.



Here is my list of the "rest". Not that these are bad (well Bushnell is) but just not what I expected.

ADE Advance Optics - Spike
I actually still have one, while it is ok it is very similar to the Crimson Trace. Always on, auto brightness, no manual on/off, bottom battery load, crappy warranty - I believe 3 years. The price tag of $149 is a bit high for the optic as I can get a crimson trace for a portion of that cost. The dot itself is decent along with the glass. I will admit it is still working just fine on a G19 I have it on so take that for what it is worth.


3 year Warranty

$149.00

Bushnell RXS100
Run run away... say fits RMSC, ummm no... bolt pattern yes, cutout no. It is blocky and the dot is not even close to crisp. Also, sits super high so you would need full blown suppressor height sights even if it did fit.


Lifetime Warranty

$87.00 (price should tell you something...)

___


In closing, if I had to pick a top three it would be:
1. Holosun
2. SigZero
3. Swampfox

Best BARGAIN optic:
hands down
Crimson Trace

_

Ending thoughts:

Another thing to watch for on these optics are the mounting holes.

Some slide cuts will come with this:
Rectangle Automotive exterior Flooring Auto part Electronic device


Others with this:
Building Wood Rectangle Hardwood House


So on most of the American cut slides they will be either 6-32 or 4-40 (lower pic) screw or a 4-40 only (upper pic) screw - lengths vary... nothing a bench grinder or dremel cant fix. FYI the Sig is Metric - comes with Metric Screws. IF you decide to go with that one understand you will need to buy screws for your optic - the ones that are used on the cover plate WILL NOT work with the optic, too short, unless you have the "tabs". I asked Sig customer service for the correct screws 2-3 times, they kept sending me metric... so save yourself the trouble and just buy em from monster bolts on eBay.

Reason I bring this up is not all optics are cut to receive the tabs that stick up. Most of the ones above are except the ADE that I know of.

As for the different cuts, bolt patterns, thread sizes... they really need to standardize on these... there are so many different types that even the firearm manufacturers have a hard time deciding which optics fit what. Red dots on pistols are fairly new and eventually they should have 1-2 different types when it is all said and done. Kinda like M-Lok and Keymod or VHS and Beta :p
 
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AK = Automatic Killer!?!
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The Swampfox Liberty looks like a contender as well.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
Liberty, Justice and Kingslayer are all RMR cut and bolt pattern. The Sentinel is the only one they have that is RMSC.

Just FYI.

And damn... writing all this I realized I need another optic for my Mossberg lol. I have been shooting it with Irons, which are nice high vis sights. Still like it but now after doing that writeup I want to put one on it lol.

I am going with another Crimson Trace (since it is actually cut for it).
 
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ROLL wif Da MOLE!
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...Holosun sells, via Primary Arms, a unit with an Inverted V pointer, and a circle that is so large, you ONLY see it when you are pointed off target a lot. ACSS Vulcan. Just an FYI, I’m not sure I like the idea...but it’s interesting.

Holosun HE507C-GR-X2 Pistol Green Dot Sight - ACSS Vulcan Reticle
With my glaucoma, I'm looking for an RDS with a huge circle, because my center vision is compromised but the periphery is better. Either that or I need to switch to other eye dominant which is hard on rifles....
 

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With my glaucoma, I'm looking for an RDS with a huge circle, because my center vision is compromised but the periphery is better. Either that or I need to switch to other eye dominant which is hard on rifles....
Don't ask me which, but there is at least one 5moa dot out there.
 
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Just not my cup of tea as I just do not like stuff hanging off my pistol. Give me a big dot / hi vis sIght and I am happy. But if I were going to put a RDS on a defensive handgun, I would subscribe to the K.I.S.S. principle. It would be always on and have a circle-dot reticle.

Remember Murphy’s Law. If it can go south it will, simple is better, no shaking or buttons. Keep an extra battery on hand and perform weekly checks, treat it like an oil change in your car. Have a schedule, don’t wait for the engine to fail.
 

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Suppressor height night sights for when the dot dies. I have 4 out of 5 Caniks that keep the rear sights when doing a dot. The other has a 5.25" barrel and the rear sight comes off with the plate. It's not really a carry gun.

I'm not ready to buy a dot yet.

What I am seeing most require the removal of the dot to swap the battery.
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Crimson Trace CTS-1550
View attachment 74721

The Crimson Trace is ALWAYS on which is good for CC but at the same time bad cause always using battery. I've used the same battery for 4 months now and it is still going. Still not bad but just a single 3moa dot I believe. It goes into sleep mode when the cover is put on it. Very durable optic though. Only issue I had with it was it did not fit the RMSC cut I had it intended for. It was a Glock 43 cut slide - it did not fit (see picture) that nub stopped it from fitting. Mossberg accounted for that since they show it with that optic (see pic). Bolt pattern fits RMSC fine. I have a slide with RMR and RMSC bolt patterns (GGS - Grey Ghost Precision) and I have that optic on that slide. Bottom load battery so you will have to re-zero when you change out batteries.

View attachment 74712

View attachment 74717

Can use standard iron sights as it sits nice and low for co-witness.

$116.00 - absolute steal.

LIFETIME WARRANTY

[...]

In closing, if I had to pick a top three it would be:
1. Holosun
2. SigZero
3. Swampfox

Best BARGAIN optic:
hands down
Crimson Trace
Dang, you're right. Mossie's official marketing glam actually has the CT on it. That does say something to me.


I'm still looking at some of the others.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 
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I'm with greg on this. RD is the current craze in the tactical world and to each his own, I prefer irons. They're always "on", don't require batteries at the wrong moment or need special consideration when carrying concealed. I am interested in which one Kirk ultimately pics - I might put it on a target pistol for competition shooting.
 

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I have two with them that I keep on all the time and 1 I remove depending on how I feel. Non has given me any problems. Both permanent ones are on Canicks. Like trashy the competition one is basically just for range use. And the other is a daily carry. I like it. It just works. It shake awakes and is good supposedly for 50,000 turn ons. Or something like that. I'm using it till it dies the I'll figure out the half l8fe and start
Product Automotive tire Gadget Machine Plastic

swapping batteries at that point.
 

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ROLL wif Da MOLE!
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I have two with them that I keep on all the time and 1 I remove depending on how I feel. Non has given me any problems. Both permanent ones are on Canicks. Like trashy the competition one is basically just for range use. And the other is a daily carry. I like it. It just works. It shake awakes and is good supposedly for 50,000 turn ons. Or something like that. I'm using it till it dies the I'll figure out the half l8fe and start View attachment 74731
swapping batteries at that point.
Half Life?
So if you get 4 years out of it, you will then schedule battery changes at 2 years?
🤔
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
I'm with greg on this. RD is the current craze in the tactical world and to each his own, I prefer irons
I get it. I felt exactly the same way about my ARs. I want irons. Can't depend on something with a battery. All the same stuff. Now both of my ARs (and my pellet rifle) have dots on them and most militaries, including the U.S., have a dot as standard EQ on their rifles.

I see exactly the same progression happening with handguns. It has just taken longer because the technology has to be a ton smaller and a ton more durable.

For me, personally, two things really sold me on the idea of RD on both rifle and pistol. First, my eyes aren't 25 years old any longer. I've got spectacles that I have to use if I don't want to see the world blurry. Tri-focals. And automatically tilting my head so that the middle lens comes up to focus on that front sight is not as automatic as I'd like. Second, God made the human brain so that it automatically focuses on the threat. Forcing myself to focus on the front sight, instead of a Target Focus is fighting against how the human brain works. RDs "fix" this issue. Actually, I see the rise of RDs as a validation of classic Point Shooting doctrine. :)

Anyway, if anyone doesn't want an RD, well, I get it. For me and my use case, it makes sense.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I have a few Red Dot sights on my rifle and on a crossbow.

I've been interested in putting one on a pistol. Shot my neighbor's tricked out full sized performance model S&W a few weeks ago.

My local indoor gun range had a few of them in their rental case and then one day they were all gone. Turns out too many people were not used to how they work and were bouncing rounds off the ceiling.

Just read across this article a few days ago. I've ordered stuff for my Walther PPQ M2 from Ben Steger

I swear that I've seen this idea before in a very early "target focus" light pipe sight. The actual tube was blocked out and your off eye acquires the target.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

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First, my eyes aren't 25 years old any longer.
Actually this is the main reason I do not like a RDS. My eyes are over 6 decades old. They don’t work well with a RDS at all. They work with a peep, a traditional scope, add they work reasonably well with the ahi Biz sights.

A dot looks like a slash. It can be corrected to look like a dot, but then a straight line at the periphery of my vision takes on a curve.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Trying to figure out compatible footprint is truly frustrating. Shield vs RMS vs RMSc vs RMR... Are some "the same thing?"

:mad:

I can't figure out if the Swampfox Libery/Justice will "fit." I've got a 15% coupon for Swampfox but it only makes sense to me if I can cut below the price of the RomeoZero. I can do that with the Liberty/Justice but not with the Kingslayer.
 
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