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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Actually this is the main reason I do not like a RDS. My eyes are over 6 decades old. They don’t work well with a RDS at all. They work with a peep, a traditional scope, add they work reasonably well with the ahi Biz sights.

A dot looks like a slash. It can be corrected to look like a dot, but then a straight line at the periphery of my vision takes on a curve.
That's astigmatism not presbyopia. I have the latter. Sounds like you have the former.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

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I get it. I felt exactly the same way about my ARs. I want irons. Can't depend on something with a battery. All the same stuff. Now both of my ARs (and my pellet rifle) have dots on them and most militaries, including the U.S., have a dot as standard EQ on their rifles.

I see exactly the same progression happening with handguns. It has just taken longer because the technology has to be a ton smaller and a ton more durable.

For me, personally, two things really sold me on the idea of RD on both rifle and pistol. First, my eyes aren't 25 years old any longer. I've got spectacles that I have to use if I don't want to see the world blurry. Tri-focals. And automatically tilting my head so that the middle lens comes up to focus on that front sight is not as automatic as I'd like. Second, God made the human brain so that it automatically focuses on the thread. Forcing myself to focus on the front sight, instead of a Target Focus is fighting against how the human brain works. RDs "fix" this issue. Actually, I see the rise of RDs as a validation of classic Point Shooting doctrine. :)

Anyway, if anyone doesn't want an RD, well, I get it. For me and my use case, it makes sense.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
I totally agree on this. My eyes have been good for a long time but my mid to late 40's my vision took a nose dive. Red dots are my saving grace, I love them and was happy with the trend for red dots on Pistols.

Yeah can I point and shoot @ 5-7 yds and hit the target, sure, but I miss the days of annihilating the middle of the target at 15 yds!!!

Red dots do take getting use to on a pistol, especially the movement (that little dot seems to move everywhere 10yds plus lol) but for close up and personal I can leave both eyes open and be confident I will hit where that dot is. I found that a good set of irons, HiVis or Night sights (depending of course) help acquire the red dot faster. Even if they are blurry, it gets me in the ballpark.
 

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Trying to figure out compatible footprint is truly frustrating. Shield vs RMS vs RMSc vs RMR... Are some "the same thing?"

:mad:

I can't figure out if the Swampfox Libery/Justice will "fit." I've got a 15% coupon for Swampfox but it only makes sense to me if I can cut below the price of the RomeoZero. I can do that with the Liberty/Justice but not with the Kingslayer.
Liberty and Justice are RMR - won't fit. The Sentinel is RMSC which will fit.

Like I was saying there are so many different cuts...

Here is a list of sights that will fit the mossberg mc2sc:
Shield standard
Shield sights are incredibly compact, which is why Shield had to come up with a footprint of their own. It is designed similarly to the Noblex/Docter footprint (there are two holes for the screws and four sockets in which the notches on the mount/adapter fit, one in each corner). The sockets, however, are a little bit wider and closer one to another.

Red dot sights that share this footprint:

I believe the only one missing from that list is the Salvo one I listed. Shield (brand) are rather pricey "English" sights.

Oh and you prolly could get an RMR to fit on the Mossberg but you would need an adapter plate, which sucks cause it raises the site up.
 
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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Liberty and Justice are RMR - won't fit. The Sentinel is RMSC which will fit.

Like I was saying there are so many different cuts...
Yeah. I'm figuring it out. ...slowly...

I need to go give a free "how to be choked out" lesson to these companies that can't come down on 1-3 standards for mounting. ;)

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 
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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Liberty and Justice are RMR - won't fit. The Sentinel is RMSC which will fit.

Like I was saying there are so many different cuts...

Here is a list of sights that will fit the mossberg mc2sc:
Shield standard
Shield sights are incredibly compact, which is why Shield had to come up with a footprint of their own. It is designed similarly to the Noblex/Docter footprint (there are two holes for the screws and four sockets in which the notches on the mount/adapter fit, one in each corner). The sockets, however, are a little bit wider and closer one to another.

Red dot sights that share this footprint:

I believe the only one missing from that list is the Salvo one I listed. Shield (brand) are rather pricey "English" sights.

Oh and you prolly could get an RMR to fit on the Mossberg but you would need an adapter plate, which sucks cause it raises the site up.
So it's looking like, for me, it's coming down to these two:
  • Sig RomeZero
  • ADE RD3-018 Spike
I admit that the CT-1550 is still in the running but the polymer housing (and poly lens?) move it much further down the list.

So the Sig and the ADE are within $10 of each other. But it looks like the Sig sits higher than the ADE. Is that right?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

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Half Life?
So if you get 4 years out of it, you will then schedule battery changes at 2 years?
🤔
Was the math that difficult for you?
 

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So it's looking like, for me, it's coming down to these two:
  • Sig RomeZero
  • ADE RD3-018 Spike
I admit that the CT-1550 is still in the running but the polymer housing (and poly lens?) move it much further down the list.

So the Sig and the ADE are within $10 of each other. But it looks like the Sig sits higher than the ADE. Is that right?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
The Sig sits ever so slightly higher, but enough to obscure the bottom part of the circle on the front sight. The ADE is fine the circle sits right on it, at least on my Glock. Let me get a pic and I will edit this.

The Sig is polymer housing also. 6 MOA dot

The ADE is Aluminum. 4 MOA dot

The CT-1550 to me is underrated and having the cutout exactly for it on the mossberg will help with it not going anywhere, nice and snug. If it had a 6 MOA dot it would be the winner hands down. The price of $113 is a steal.

I use to hate polymer, but anymore it is becoming more and more the norm. I'm not as afraid of it as I use to be (like poly ar lowers about 8 years ago lol).

Now only other thing I will throw out there is ADE is like a 3 year warranty where Sig and CT are lifetime, if that factors into your decision at all. I still have the ADE - it works - just not as "fancy" as the others.

OK pics:

Crimson Trace: Beautiful with standard irons.
Automotive design Motor vehicle Automotive tire Bag Gadget




ADE, Also great with standard height sights:

Automotive design Luggage and bags Sunglasses Eyewear Bag



Now here is the Sig. What I TOTALLY didn't think about is when I ordered it it came with an Aluminum "shield" it sat in, and as you can see (pic 2) below it raises it up enough to need suppressor sights (pic 1). So without that shield (I believe sold separately now) it should sit the same as the others.

Automotive tire Automotive design Textile Camera lens Motor vehicle
Automotive design Vehicle Hood Automotive tire Bumper
 
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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
OK, well that helps narrow it down. It takes the ADE out of the running.

That puts it between the Sig and the CT. The Sig has more features and, supposedly, a much longer battery life. IMO, both companies have a good reputation so I guess it comes down to whether or not the extra features/6-MOA/battery of the Sig is worth the additional $37.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

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That's astigmatism not presbyopia. I have the latter. Sounds like you have the former.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
They told me what it’s called, but I can not remember. The rear part of your eye naturally pulls away as you age. In my case, it’s not completely pulling away, but staying attached at a few points. Its common enough that you can not call it uncommon. And definitely age related. Astigmatism is included in the equation but not sure to what degree. Or if it’s even related to the base problem.

I have problems focusing up close.
 
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Discussion Starter · #30 · (Edited)
So on most of the American cut slides they will be either 6-32 or 4-40 (lower pic) screw or a 4-40 only (upper pic) screw - lengths vary... nothing a bench grinder or dremel cant fix. FYI the Sig is Metric - comes with Metric Screws. IF you decide to go with that one understand you will need to buy screws for your optic - the ones that are used on the cover plate WILL NOT work with the optic, too short, unless you have the "tabs". I asked Sig customer service for the correct screws 2-3 times, they kept sending me metric... so save yourself the trouble and just buy em from monster bolts on eBay.
I decided on the Sig. Placed my order a few min ago. I'm not familiar with "monster bolts" but I can google 'em I guess. I'm not entirely sure what to buy. The mossy has cut in holes without protrusions (bottom pic). Do I need the 6-32 or the 4-40. The manual says to use M4x0.7mm. I guess google will help me figure that out too.

[edit]
Google tellse me that M4 x 0.7mm is metric (hence the "mm" :) ), so the ones that Sig send with the Romezero should work, right? [fingers crossed].

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 
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I decided on the Sig. Placed my order a few min ago. I'm not familiar with "monster bolts" but I can google 'em I guess. I'm not entirely sure what to buy. The mossy has cut in holes without protrusions (bottom pic). Do I need the 6-32 or the 4-40. The manual says to use M4x0.7mm. I guess google will help me figure that out too.

[edit]
Google tellse me that M4 x 0.7mm is metric (hence the "mm" :) ), so the ones that Sig send with the Romezero should work, right? [fingers crossed].

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
Edit: Forgot to add - CONGRATS and welcome to the world of Pistol RDS!!!

OK so checked my Mossy, it is an M4 thread - duh Brazil - so Metric. The screws that come with the Sig are M3 and M4 you should be fine.

If for some reason you do not get those screws let me know and I'll send you a set.

Sig customer service is kinda sucky when it comes to their optics, they refused to send me out English threads for their sights, where every other manufacturer usually includes 2-4 sets of different screws and some even include adapter plates. Its Sig, take it or leave in mentality lol - but it is a nice optic.

Oh also just took a screenshot of "monster bolts" for you - they are on eBay - just search thread sizes and they show up - if you ever need.
Font Rectangle Line Screenshot Software
 
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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
Edit: Forgot to add - CONGRATS and welcome to the world of Pistol RDS!!!

OK so checked my Mossy, it is an M4 thread - duh Brazil - so Metric. The screws that come with the Sig are M3 and M4 you should be fine.

If for some reason you do not get those screws let me know and I'll send you a set.

Sig customer service is kinda sucky when it comes to their optics, they refused to send me out English threads for their sights, where every other manufacturer usually includes 2-4 sets of different screws and some even include adapter plates. Its Sig, take it or leave in mentality lol - but it is a nice optic.

Oh also just took a screenshot of "monster bolts" for you - they are on eBay - just search thread sizes and they show up - if you ever need.
View attachment 74752
Cool. Thanks. :)

Peace favor your sword (mobile)
 

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I swear that I've seen this idea before in a very early "target focus" light pipe sight. The actual tube was blocked out and your off eye acquires the target.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
The original red dots were “occluded”, you didn’t see through them, they just put a red dot in front of your aiming eye. The other eye had to stay open, or you couldn’t see the target.

Called the Single Point. Several variations existed, and still do.



 
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They told me what it’s called, but I can not remember. The rear part of your eye naturally pulls away as you age. In my case, it’s not completely pulling away, but staying attached at a few points. Its common enough that you can not call it uncommon. And definitely age related. Astigmatism is included in the equation but not sure to what degree. Or if it’s even related to the base problem.

I have problems focusing up close.
You are describing a detached retina, or if you are really meaning Macular Degeneration more likely. That is age related. A detached retina is related to head or eye trauma.

MacD is treatable with vitamin supplements but the most effective are injected directly into the eyeball. At least an eye surgeon told me that a few years back when I had my 2nd detached retina repair.
 

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You are describing a detached retina, or if you are really meaning Macular Degeneration more likely. That is age related. A detached retina is related to head or eye trauma.

MacD is treatable with vitamin supplements but the most effective are injected directly into the eyeball. At least an eye surgeon told me that a few years back when I had my 2nd detached retina repair.
It’s neither. It’s a normal part of aging. There is a covering on the back of the eye that normally pulls away as you age. It’s the reason that people start needing things like reading glasses after they hit 40 years or so. This covering normally pulls away clean. In my case it is staying attached in spots.

This is how it was explained to me. There is no trauma and the blood vessels are good.

I first started noticing it when in a restaurant and could not read the menu, and I could not read the index in my truckers atlas. In bright light I did not have the problem.
 

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It’s neither. It’s a normal part of aging. There is a covering on the back of the eye that normally pulls away as you age. It’s the reason that people start needing things like reading glasses after they hit 40 years or so. This covering normally pulls away clean. In my case it is staying attached in spots.

This is how it was explained to me. There is no trauma and the blood vessels are good.

I first started noticing it when in a restaurant and could not read the menu, and I could not read the index in my truckers atlas. In bright light I did not have the problem.
Reading glasses is usually because the lens is losing elasticity...

A name of this malady would clear everything up in a second :D

My family has more experience with eye problems than anyone would want to have, plus we've also had 4 family members working for eye doctors. I just can't recall this from your description, sounds like a combination of things to me. But ophthalmology sometimes has combined problems.

Whatever it is, I hope you get it cleared up! My Dad nearly went blind several times but was able to drive right up to the very end. Gives me hope!
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
my Mossberg
What holster do you use for your MC2sc? The only one I can find is on Mossberg's web site.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

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What holster do you use for your MC2sc? The only one I can find is on Mossberg's web site.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Supposedly fits any of the kydex holsters that the Mc1sc fit. Width is negligible and the profile is very close to being the same.

 

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Discussion Starter · #39 · (Edited)
Looks like the one they have for the it on Mossy's web site. I really prefer OWB and the one on the Mossy website claims IWB and OWB but I have my doubts. They mention leather belt loops for OWB. Huh? An all kydex holster with leather loops? Weird.

Supposedly fits any of the kydex holsters that the Mc1sc fit. Width is negligible and the profile is very close to being the same.
Well, that's good to know. I hadn't read that anywhere else yet. Now I just have to find one that will accommodate the optic. :)

Do you use a spare mag holster? I like the single mag carriers. I need to find those too.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 
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Looks like the one they have for the it on Mossy's web site. I really prefer OWB and the one on the Mossy website claims IWB and OWB but I have my doubts. They mention leather belt loops for OWB. Huh? An all kydex holster with leather loops? Weird.
I have one like that for my G43. It's Kydex and comes with an attachment to make it OWB if wanted. Tried it, it works OK... it is this one:


Least you can see the piece they give you to make it OWB from IWB.

Well, that's good to know. I hadn't read that anywhere else yet. Now I just have to find one that will accommodate the optic. :)
Well, I am assuming since the other link I sent shows them overlaid on each other - they are the same and about a 1/16" difference in width - should fit like a glove.

Quick Amazon search showed:



I personally have the Safariland one and it fits EVERY pistol I have - totally adjustable - fits my Glock 19/17/26/34 great even fits my Glock 43, Glock 20, CZ-75B, Berretta M9, Taurus 24/7 I can go on and on - fits them all. Haven't tried it with my Mossy as it is "newish" but I have it set up for my 34 at the moment. I have it set perfectly. The adjustment on it is a snap and works great in my opinion. They have a "slim" pro model also.

I bought it for classes I take since can't use Blackhawks...

If it doesn't work - Amazon takes it back no questions asked - but I really believe it will fit. Sat it in there and it actually did click into place but was slightly loose - just need to play with the adjustment.

Works with the optics I have.

Do you use a spare mag holster? I like the single mag carriers. I need to find those too.
I have them for my 43, the mossy don't fit those - not adjustable 3d printed ones from eBay.

Get the double stack Kydex ones like these - they are adjustable and have single stack/double stack versions.

Kydex Mag Holders
 
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