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Discussion in 'General Firearms Discussion' started by bluharley, Aug 9, 2014.
How do you know you're not buying a stolen gun? Blind faith?
Yep, just like when you are selling you just have to hope they aren't lying to you...
Asking them for ID and if they'd be willing to sign a bill of sale will usually weed out some of the problems on either end(buy or sell)
I've sold to a dealer at a gun show with no paper work or ID's
Reckon that was pretty safe.
Recently sold two rifles in the parking lot of a gun store.
Came in to sell them, owner said no and a long time customer walked in and the owner actually pointed him over to me.
So we sealed the deal in the parking lot.
If the owner of a gun store knows you by your first name and you bring your 12 year old daughter I reckon it was OK.
Guy also had his business name on his truck and it was a chance encounter.
Reckon that was pretty safe too.
Other than that I'm not too thrilled about it.
I generally make sure I see an ID during it and if they act odd about it I'll bail on the deal. Luckily I've only sold or bought a few firearms through private sales.
Most private sales I have done have been to good friends or immediate family. I've only sold "blind" through Armslist a few times and luckily, the guys both had concealed carry permits, which put my mind at ease.
When buying, a bill of sale is a good idea, it'll help protect you from legal issues if the gun does turn out to be stolen. Just make sure you get the guy's REAL name, compare ID's and make sure the agreement reads that ______ sold you ______ gun serial number ______. Include his signature as well as yours.
All of the above. Any face to face deals need to be in a public area (like a Wal-Mart parking lot) during daytime. And listen to your Spidey-Senses. If the other guy seems a little off, walk away (or back away).
Pretty certain that the general consensus here will be that I've been brain washed and desensitized to my "lack of freedom" after having lived in California for so long, but what I'm reading in this thread is alien to me.
You guys buy guns without involving an FFL and all the associated background checks and waiting periods?
Honestly, how do you know you aren't buying a stolen gun, or worse, one used in a homicide that you are now in possession of?
Some California laws don't look so bad to me in a situation like this. I've bought several pre-owned firearms and there is absolutely no question in my mind that they're "clean".
That's why I asked! As far as Florida, we're in a 3rd world country down here, just about anything goes. And the consensus is: be wary, and careful, and know who you're dealing with. I might go as far as seeing if my FFL will do a search on the serial number for me, if it's stolen or worse, I'd turn it over to LEO.
Private gun sales here in Vermont don't require an FFL and are really no different legally than selling your car privately. Get a signed bill of sale and that's about it. If you inadvertently buy a stolen firearm it's no crime as long as you took reasonable precautions to avoid it. Of course, you'll lose the gun and eat the loss.
I have no idea what happens behind the scenes with all the paperwork and info, but this is how a (legal) PPT goes down in California.
Both parties arrive at FFL.
Firearm is presented at counter and clerk verifies it is unloaded and documents serial #, make, model, and caliber on DROS Form 4473 (Dealer Record Of Sale).
Both parties present ID and buyer supplies HSC if purchasing a handgun.
Clerk photocopies everything and transmits to CADOJ and the firearms is now in the possession of the FFL for a period of ten days exactly to the minute, during which time neither the buyer nor seller can for any reason have access to it.
Buyer pays twenty five dollar fee and leaves.
At the end of the ten day waiting period the buyer returns with copy of paid fee and DROS paper work, ID, and proof of residence that matches address on ID (DMV registration, utility bill, etc).
We make arrangements to meet, gun and money trade hands, we go home.
But for those of us that care, we try to get a bill of sale, usually including a name a drivers license number, the serial number, and signatures by both.
But since we never have to register the gun, there will never be any way to find out if the gun was used for nefarious purposes, unless we take it to the cops and ask them to do ballistics tests on it.
Technically, your checks in CA do nothing to determine that either. There is no record of ballistics, so the ONLY thing being checked is the people. For all your checks show, there's no way to say if the gun was used in a crime, unless the guy got caught and the gun was part of the case. In which case, he isn't selling it, is he?
See, this is the problem with those silly gun laws. They don't actually DO anything!
Seems to me that as long as the crime was commited before I took possession of the gun, I'm pretty clear of any involvement in the eyes of the law.
REMEMBER it is NOT illegal to own a stolen gun or a gun involved in a homicide. It is illegal to KNOW you own a stolen gun or involved in a homicide. You can't be convicted for something you have NO knowledge of! If you have a signed firearms bill of sale, keep your copy filed away, so you can provide proof who you bought or sold a gun to. This is all that is required in Ohio. I use this in ALL firearms transaction, friends, family, or strangers. This way I remember who & where my firearms went or came from?
Unless it's stolen, then you are in possession of stolen property, and have fun convincing them you had nothing to do with the theft. If the guy on the receipt, if you got one, is not able to be located, then...... I think I might just stay clear of private sales, they all want too much for them anyway.
I think in most places, possession of stolen property is still illegal, even if you do have a bill of sale and did not know, it will still be taken from you as it rightfully belongs to someone else.
You are correct, if the gun was stolen, it should be returned to it's rightful owner. Pawn shops are notorious for receiving stolen property, but very few if any of the owners go to jail or are even prosecuted for having possession of the property.
How on earth are the police ever going to find the gun you have, and then decide to test it in regards to some case?
Again, the media has people convinced that the police can work magic. They can't.
Yep, all the bill of sale does is keep you out of jail. But again, how do the police find you and the gun?
I actually have an SKS that I got for $175, it was sold to a pawn shop, the police asked if the man had bought or sold guns, turns out he was a felon. The gun was in evidence for over a year, then the pawn shop got it back, as there was no other known owner. Either the original owner sold it to the guy, or didn't report it stolen.
I was there when they brought it in, the old price tag was still on it. They sold it to me for the old price.
The Florida Department of Law Enforcement (FDLE) has an online stolen gun registry to which you can check the serial number to. Here's the link:
Copy his DL info and a written bill of sale or no juice.
I have bought and sold many firearms this way over the last 4 decades.
I thought the police were always at Pawn Shops looking for stolen guns?