[Visper]

OK, so here is my dilemma. I have a couple suppressors. One for my 223 and one for my AKs. The AK one suppresses horribly so I am toying with the idea of mounting it on a 9mm AR PCC full time.

It is a Huntertown Arms Kestral AK suppressor. The inner bore is oversized to compensate for non-concentric AK combloc barrels. The inner bore is .380 while an AK round is .308, more than enough clearance. I have watched vids online where people have shot 9mm through their Kestral AK suppressor. Issue is they all said they could drop a 9mm or 300 aac right through the suppressor, casing and all. Well not sure if I have a newer one but mine cannot. Just the bullet no casing will go through, 9mm and 300 aac bullets rattle around but don't get stuck though. It is rated for 7.62x39 and 300aac, not for 308. That is reason I ma thinking of making it a 9mm only one while still being able to use it on 300aac and 7.62x39 if I wanted in a pinch.

Other reasons not to make it 300aac or leave it 7.62x39.
1. 7.62x39 subsonic ammo expensive and does not cycle (tried it on my AKs, they don't have adjustable gas blocks)
2. 300aac subs are even more money so forget it and not set up to reload it
3. 147gr 9mm easier and cheaper to get.

So first question:

1. Is that enough clearance. .380 ID and .355 bullet OD for 9mm.
2. If that is not adequate clearance can I get the end plate and baffles re-bored to a larger diameter by a machine shop.

Best part about the huntertown arms suppressor is, you can take it apart. (Picture) Serialized part left, front part with removable baffles and front plate on right.

IF I need to get it re-bored/opened up anyone know a machine shop that will take "machine parts"?

Finally, Huntertown is out of business, or I would just send it to them or order new baffles and endcap.

Help me brainstorm on this one!!!

 

[Visper]

OK, after some research, it would prolly work, even if I just send a 3/8 bit on my drill press through it each baffle etc, but I am not set up for .000 precision... also it may be too much of a stretch as the ATF has this particular one on file as a 7.62 AK, so going up to .380 to .400 ID on the baffles and front plate may be pushing the "overbore" to its limit with them.

So, I did just make AR-47 pistol, I can swap out gas blocks on there to add an adjustable one and change the rail.

Still will have to find some subs in 7.62x39, but worse case shoot it with standard sonic rounds. It will get the volume down a little but not as much as with the subs.

So I was shopping for a new Suppressor, going to get a 45 one so I can use with my AR-9 pcc, my AP5-P and my AR-45 pcc. Think I found one so looks like I will be adding a new one to my trust.

Pics will come after I get, going to give Silencer central a call tomorrow and get the ball rolling...

So this is going to be 2 stamps in a few month span with the sbr too...

 

[TNTRAILERTRASH]

I think there is multi caliber cans out there. Not sure. Might want to check into buying one of those.

Not knowing the "laws" on cans, is modifying it "legal?"

 

[Visper]

You can't change the "serialized" part in any way. But things like baffles and endplates get replaced all the time either from wear or strikes. Also suppressors are marked caliber, so you can over-bore the suppressor within reason for that caliber and below.

The suppressor in question I can actually send off to an FFL/Manufacturer that is wasn't made by, since Huntertown is out of business. They can change the baffles, endplate, mounting system etc. Everything BUT the tube. Even then I believe if it has to be repaired due to a failure (the serialized tube) they can repair the tube as long as they keep the serial number and caliber the same. If it is beyond repair, well you need a new suppressor...

Works the same way with NFA items like full autos, correct?

Remember the "silencer" is the serialized part only, kind of like a recveiver.

"Here is the part that got me thinking and ultimately made me go in the new suppressor direction:

If alterations to a silencer would increase the overall length or change the diameter or caliber of a silencer, this is the making of a new silencer, as opposed to a repair. The new silencer must be registered and transferred in accordance with the NFA and the GCA. Alterations to a registered silencer that result in a minimal reduction in the overall length for purposes of rethreading are permissible as repairs. However, the reduction in length may not result in the removal, obliteration, or alteration of the existing serial number, as this would violate 18 U.S.C. § 922(k). If such a repair is necessary, the damaged silencer should be destroyed or returned to the registrant. If it is destroyed, destruction should be reported to the NFA Branch. Any replacement silencer must be registered and transferred in accordance with the NFA and the GCA. See Q2 and Q3 for further information on repairs."

So even though when I purchased this silencer it was overbore to .380 and is borderline for 9mm, I don't want to risk either destroying the silencer by leaving it as is and risking it or modifying it slightly to accept that round. 9mm suppressors usually run around .42, so me going to .40 comes dangerously close to "changing the caliber" officially, least that's how I read it.

Why I figured go to a 45 acp suppressor. It can handle every 45 or under, in pistol caliber only of course. So yeah, MultiCal @TNTRAILERTRASH .

I have a 223/556 suppressor and the suppressor in question in 7.62x39/300aac covered. I only have one 308 with a threaded barrel so not gonna worry about a suppressor for that caliber... (edit: I lied I have more... forgot the CETME C and FALs along with my L308... either way gonna wait on that one.)

___

Here is silencer 101 stuff from the ATF, subject to change by the ATF on a whim of course:

Q1: What part of a silencer must be marked?

A: The silencer must be marked in accordance with 27 C.F.R. §§ 478.92 and 479.102. The regulations require that the markings be conspicuous and legible, meaning that the markings may be placed on any external part, such as the outer tube or end cap.

ATF strongly recommends that manufacturers place all required markings on the outer tube of the silencer, as this is the accepted industry standard. Moreover, this practice eliminates the need to remark in the event an end cap bearing the markings is damaged and requires replacement.

Q2: May a Federal firearms licensee repair a silencer by replacing worn or damaged components?

A: A person who is licensed under the Gun Control Act (GCA) to manufacture firearms and who has paid the special (occupational) tax to manufacture National Firearms Act (NFA) firearms may replace a component part or parts of a silencer. Repairs may not be done if they result in removal, obliteration, or alteration of the serial number, as this would violate 18 U.S.C. § 922(k). If a silencer part bearing the serial number, other than the outer tube, must be replaced, the new part must be marked with the same serial number as the replacement part.

The term “repair” does not include replacement of the outer tube of the silencer. The outer tube is the largest single part of the silencer, the main structural component of the silencer, and is the part to which all other component parts are attached. The replacement of the outer tube is so significant an event that it amounts to the “making” of a new silencer. As such, the new silencer must be marked, registered and transferred in accordance with the NFA and GCA.

In the event that identical replacement parts for a silencer are not available, new and different component parts may be used as long as the silencer retains the same dimensions and caliber. In addition, the repair may result in a minimal reduction in the length of the outer tube due to rethreading, but repair may not increase the length of the outer tube. Increasing the length of the outer tube significantly affects the performance of the silencer and results in the “making” of a new silencer. As stated above, a new silencer must be marked, registered and transferred in accordance with the NFA and GCA. Reducing the length of the tube by a minimal amount in order to repair a silencer is often necessary to replace damaged end caps, as the tube must be rethreaded. Such minimal reduction of the length of the tube uses all of the original parts, does not significantly affect performance of the silencer, and may be done as part of a repair process without making a new silencer.

Persons other than qualified manufacturers may repair silencers, but replacement parts are “silencers” as defined in 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(24) that must be registered and transferred in accordance with the NFA and GCA.

Q3: May the outer tube of a registered silencer be repaired due to damage? If so, may the repair be done by someone other than the original manufacturer?

A: damaged outer tube may be repaired by any Federal firearms licensee qualified to perform gunsmithing or by the registered owner. The repair may not alter the dimensions or caliber of the silencer, except that the length of the outer tube may be reduced, as set forth above. The repair may not be performed if it results in the removal, obliteration, or alteration of the serial number, as this would violate 18 U.S.C. § 922(k). In that case, the silencer may be returned to the registered owner in its original, damaged condition or destroyed. A replacement silencer must be registered and transferred to the registrant of the damaged silencer in the same manner as a new silencer, subject to the registration and transfer procedures of the NFA and GCA.

Q4: If the outer tube is destroyed or damaged beyond repair, may it be replaced?

A: Unless the outer tube is replaced by the manufacturer prior to its removal from the manufacturing premises for purposes of sale or distribution (see Q6), the replacement of the outer tube amounts to the making of a new silencer. For the registered owner to fabricate a new outer tube, he or she must submit an ATF Form 1, Application to Make and Register a Firearm, pay the making tax of $200, and receive ATF approval. The application to make should indicate that the new tube is being fabricated for use in replacing a damaged outer tube on a registered silencer, and the application should indicate the make, model and serial number of the registered silencer. It would be helpful for the applicant to include a copy of the approved registration for the silencer. Assembly of the newly fabricated tube with the other parts of the registered silencer does not require an additional application to make nor payment of another making tax, as the one Form 1 will provide permission to fabricate the new tube and to assemble it with the old silencer parts. The replacement tube must be marked in accordance with 27 C.F.R. § 479.102. The registrant may use the same serial number that appeared on the damaged tube.

If the registered owner wishes to acquire a replacement tube from a person other than a qualified manufacturer, the replacement tube must be registered as a new silencer by the other person and transferred to the registered owner in accordance with the NFA and GCA. The other person must submit an ATF Form 1, pay the $200 making tax, and receive ATF approval to make the replacement tube. The replacement tube must be marked in accordance with 27 C.F.R. §§ 478.92 and 479.102. The other person would then transfer the replacement tube to the owner of the damaged silencer, subject to the transfer tax, in accordance with the NFA and GCA. The new tube may be then be assembled with the other parts. The original damaged silencer should be reported to the NFA Branch as destroyed.

Alternatively, a qualified manufacturer may replace the tube, report the manufacture on ATF Form 2, Notice of Firearms Manufactured or Imported, and transfer the replacement tube to the owner in accordance with the NFA and GCA. The transfer must comply with the $200 transfer tax and all other provisions of the NFA, as it would be a new silencer. The replacement tube must also be marked in accordance with 27 C.F.R. §§ 478.92 and 479.102. The required markings include an individual serial number and the name, city, and State of the manufacturer who replaced the tube. The replacement tube may not be marked with the name, city, and State of the original manufacturer of the silencer, as this would be a false marking. Although the new tube is a new silencer for purposes of the NFA, it would be a replacement firearm of the same type as the original silencer, and it may be returned directly to the registrant in interstate commerce in accordance with 18 U.S.C. § 922(a)(2). The original damaged silencer should be reported to the NFA Branch as destroyed.

Q5: May a repair change the dimensions or caliber of a silencer?

A: If alterations to a silencer would increase the overall length or change the diameter or caliber of a silencer, this is the making of a new silencer, as opposed to a repair. The new silencer must be registered and transferred in accordance with the NFA and the GCA. Alterations to a registered silencer that result in a minimal reduction in the overall length for purposes of rethreading are permissible as repairs. However, the reduction in length may not result in the removal, obliteration, or alteration of the existing serial number, as this would violate 18 U.S.C. § 922(k). If such a repair is necessary, the damaged silencer should be destroyed or returned to the registrant. If it is destroyed, destruction should be reported to the NFA Branch. Any replacement silencer must be registered and transferred in accordance with the NFA and the GCA. See Q2 and Q3 for further information on repairs.

Q6: If a silencer is found to be defective due to the manufacturing process, may it be replaced?

A: A silencer may be replaced only under the following circumstances:

1. A manufacturer of silencers licensed as a manufacturer under the GCA who has paid special (occupational) tax under the NFA;
2. prior to the time the silencer has left the manufacturer’s premises;
3. determines that a silencer of its own manufacture is defective.

If all the above criteria are satisfied, the manufacturer may destroy the defective silencer and replace it with another silencer. If the silencer has already been registered, the replacement silencer may be marked with the same serial number and markings as the original silencer. If the destruction is prior to registration on Form 2, the replacement silencer may be marked with the same serial number or another serial number. See also Q2, Q3, and Q4.

 

[undeRGRound]

Not debating the legal aspect of any of this, but WOW THAT IS A LOAD OF HORSE HOCKEY over a simple device that saves ears!!!

In your case I'd just shoot it with 9mm if others have done it.

3/8" is .375" and you're already at .380" so the drill bit won't do much.

Don't you have a caliper? Verify that .380 and shoot 9mm thru there

 

[lklawson]

I know that ATF has been making rumblings about every part of the suppressor is the suppressor. They've used this as constructive intent for prosecution when people have washers that the ATF thinks they intended to eventually turn into a can but don't (yet) have a stamp.

It's stupid stuff like that (and the cost) that has kept me away.

That said, I'm very interested in your journey on this and will follow this thread.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Visper]

In your case I'd just shoot it with 9mm if others have done it.

3/8" is .375" and you're already at .380" so the drill bit won't do much.

Don't you have a caliper? Verify that .380 and shoot 9mm thru there

I agree I was going to until I read that those people also dropped a 9mm through the suppressor and it went through clean, casing and all. I can get a bullet to drop through no problem, but not in the casing like they stated... so it makes me hesitant because that is $700.00 lol. Why i was askin if anyone knew a rule of thumb for "safe" clearance. .354 bullet dia vs .380 inner suppressor diameter. That only give me .013 clearance. Only rule of thumb I saw was an old thread from like 2010 on silencer something forum, they kept saying .06 or .03 each side. I am at 1/2 of that...

Yeah I have calipers, digital, how i got the .380 reading. I should have specified, I have a thread adapter that goes from 14x1 LH (AK) to 5/8x24 or 1/2x28. Both of those adapters have an internal dimension of .360... where 9mm is .354. That is where I was going to use the 3/8 bit to open those up, sorry sometimes I have thoughts going through my head so fast that I don't convey them so good...

Not debating the legal aspect of any of this, but WOW THAT IS A LOAD OF HORSE HOCKEY over a simple device that saves ears!!!

No shit... they love seeing how many hoops they can make us jump through...

 

[Visper]

OK, I may tweak my adapter, its from ebay not part of the suppressor. I need to open up the inner diameter to take a 9mm, so from .36 to .375 or w/e bit I have maybe slightly larger. Don't want to push that bore out either.

Then MAYBE I will attempt to shoot a 9mm through it. Still doing as much reading as I can find on it. Problem is not much Huntertown Arms Kestral AK info out there especially in regard to 9mm.

Keep you all posted.

 

[undeRGRound]

Gotcha Vis! I kind of assumed you did all these things and had all the tools, but we play it so safe here @hpff that I decided to ask, and we never know who is reading, so too much info is better than not enough I guess!

 

[Visper]

Gotcha Vis! I kind of assumed you did all these things and had all the tools, but we play it so safe here @hpff that I decided to ask, and we never know who is reading, so too much info is better than not enough I guess!

Nothing wrong with wondering out loud!! lol

But yeah... I get ya, you never know who is reading.

I just hate that their rules are sometimes ambiguous at best which I am sure is intentional. I would never do something illegal, especially knowingly... but there is something to be said about pushing the envelope. If no one pushed the envelope we would not have pistol braces and FRT or Binary triggers. I just happen to have some limits on how far to push lol.

I did hear back from a machine shop, they told me the largest ID you could go would be .37 and I quote from him:

"All of our 5/8x24 female to 14x1 LH are .37". cannot be larger because it the wall would be too thin and would break"

So... .370 is even worse than .380 - this is looking futile at the moment... If Huntertown was still in business I could buy the different connection sizes, namely 5/8x24, as those are interchangeable but proprietary...

We shall see what Curtis Suppressors says they can do - they kinda picked up the ball for Huntertown and service them.


On a different front, I ordered my Banish 45 suppressor. Paperwork for that and my sbr should be out by the end of the week. This will cover 9mm, 45 acp and 300 aac. My 223 covers well duh 223/556 and 22lr. My Kestral, for now, covers my AKs. Think we're good... lol

 

[histed]

Gotcha Vis! I kind of assumed you did all these things and had all the tools, but we play it so safe here @hpff that I decided to ask, and we never know who is reading, so too much info is better than not enough I guess!

Depends on the information, Mole. Ya know what I mean!??

 

[undeRGRound]

Depends on the information, Mole. Ya know what I mean!??

Tru-Dat!

 

[FlashBang]

I don't know why you think you can't shoot 9mm through the Kestrel 762 AK suppressor. I have 2 of them and have one dedicated to a 995TS that I thread. If you need an Omni mount for the can give Dave a call at Rivercity Armory in Cedar Creek Texas (512) 303-4424, he opens at 11am CST. He has some Omni mounts and also an Omni mount that is non-drilled and threaded that can be used to make whatever you need. Their NOS from when he sold Huntertown suppressors. Here's a video of 9mm through a Kestrel 762 AK.

 

[undeRGRound]

I don't know why you think you can't shoot 9mm through the Kestrel 762 AK suppressor. I have 2 of them and have one dedicated to a 995TS that I thread. If you need an Omni mount for the can give Dave a call at Rivercity Armory in Cedar Creek Texas (512) 303-4424, he opens at 11am CST. He has some Omni mounts and also an Omni mount that is non-drilled and threaded that can be used to make whatever you need. Their NOS from when he sold Huntertown suppressors. Here's a video of 9mm through a Kestrel 762 AK.

there U have it, the GOSPEL according to GUN JESUS!!

JUST SHOOT IT, MAN!!! :ROTFL:

 

[Visper]

I don't know why you think you can't shoot 9mm through the Kestrel 762 AK suppressor. I have 2 of them and have one dedicated to a 995TS that I thread. If you need an Omni mount for the can give Dave a call at Rivercity Armory in Cedar Creek Texas (512) 303-4424, he opens at 11am CST. He has some Omni mounts and also an Omni mount that is non-drilled and threaded that can be used to make whatever you need. Their NOS from when he sold Huntertown suppressors. Here's a video of 9mm through a Kestrel 762 AK.

Yup saw the same video Flash.

From some things I read people could drop a 9mm (casing and all) right through the Kestral, I could not, that was the reason I was concerned. If you have used it for that purpose though I will give it a shot - literally!!!

Definitely give him a call on Monday concerning those omni mounts also.

 

[FlashBang]

Yup saw the same video Flash.

From some things I read people could drop a 9mm (casing and all) right through the Kestral, I could not, that was the reason I was concerned. If you have used it for that purpose though I will give it a shot - literally!!!

Definitely give him a call on Monday concerning those omni mounts also.

He's closed on Mondays.

 

[Visper]

He's closed on Mondays.

OK thanks, Tuesday it is!!!