Really good question here/and story too.

Discussion in 'Vintage Topic Archive (Sept - 2009)' started by squeak_D, Jan 31, 2008.

  1. squeak_D

    squeak_D Guest

    Wow, I have a really good story to tell here, and a few questions to ask. I'm not sure if anyone here has had this problem or if any LEO's that are members here will comment on this as well.

    I just got a call about an hour ago from a good friend of mine regarding something that happened to him a few days ago at a local gas station. My friend will open carry from time to time. He has never had a LEO approach him regarding it either. What happened to him at this gas station really raises some good questions about what is possibly crossing the line in terms of how an officer deals with an idividual who open carries.

    Anywho, he was getting gas for his truck, and shortly after he started pumping a police officer approached him. From what I gather and was told there was already a cop car parked near him as the officer was in the gas station buying something. The officer exits the gas station, and notices my friend is carrying a weapon. Now this is where it gets tricky. My buddy didn't break any laws, and was in complete compliance with out states open carry regulations.

    The officer approached him..., asked no questions.., told him to turn around and place his hands against the bed of his truck. The officer then dis-armed him escorted my friend to the rear of his police cruiser and sat him in the back (he wasn't cuffed, but made to sit in the back of the cruiser) after doing this the officer then ran his ID. My buddy has no criminal record of any kind. His ID check came back clear. The officer then got him out of the cruiser handed him his weapon (unloaded of course) and then left.

    What gives???? My friend said he had never felt so humilated in his life. This all happened in front of people he has known for years and goes to church with. The guy is in his late 40's, and he doesn't fit any known profile either. He's an accountant, and looks like one too :) I really felt bad for him after hearing this.

    Questions: Did this officer step over the line in how he delt with this? No crime was taking place, and there wasn't probable cause. I totally understand an officer wanting to check to see if he's following the law, but man this seems a little harsh. From the start he was treated like a criminal :( Since there was no crime taking place and no probable cause was that officer within the law by dis-arming a law-abiding citizen without good cause?

    I don't know what to tell him on this one. I've been approached by the police a few times, but this one's got me scratching my head. Man I really feel bad for him.

    I will say this. I STRONGLY suggest this to anyone here who chooses to open carry. This is what I do, and I have been commended by the police on numerous occasions for doing this. If you open carry DO NOT carry your ID in your back pocket. Anytime I open carry I will ALWAYS wear a shirt that has a breast pocket. I carry my ID in the breast pocket of that shirt. Keeping it in your wallet means you have to go past your weapon to get it. If you see an officer coming and you're prepared for what's about to happen you may just go for your ID in your back pocket, which to you may seem harmless, but to that officer approaching you it will look like you're going for your weapon, and this situation can get ugly REALLY fast.

    So, what do I tell my friend??? He doesn't know if he needs to file a complaint with the department. I don't know what to tell him. The police in my city are used to seeing me now with a pistol on my hip. Since I've already been cleared (on several occasions) they just wave to me as they go by.

    So can any LEO's here comment on this?

    Thanks,
    Squeak
     
  2. squeak_D

    squeak_D Guest

    Glockman, aren't you an LEO? Can you comment on this please. I'm at a loss for words on it. Poor guys wife was in tears over this. When he was put in the back of the cruiser, people there who knew him and his family called from cell phones and told his wife the moment it happened. I can only imagine what she was thinking.
     

  3. elguapo

    elguapo Guest

    I can only comment on the whole situation. Its one of the main reasons I got my CCW. I know that open carry is legal here, but have heard horror stories similar to your friend.
    This type of scenario is a very sticky one, one that ranks right up there with religion and politics: esp with people who carry guns open carry and those who have a permit for CCW.
    That is all I am going to say on this.
     
  4. squeak_D

    squeak_D Guest

    You're right, it's very sticky. I don't know what to tell the guy. I don't know departmental procedure in how they deal with questioning and validitating those publically carrying. The only thing I could suggest to him was to talk to an attorney to make sure.

    I got hassled a few times when I started to open carry, but they know me now and I don't have any problems anymore. It's nuts really. The law is there, you follow it, but some end up being treated like a criminal for following the law. I guess it would be different if the officer had walked up to him, and asked questions. He dis-armed the guy in a matter of seconds, and treated him like he was breaking the law. That's where I start to really question what happened to him.

    Personally I have no problem with any officer that checks me out. I prefer it to be honest. This way they're at least checking to make sure criminals aren't abusing the open carry law, but how some officers deal with it is questionable.
     
  5. I agree with squeak, if the LEO came up to me and politely asked for cooperation it would be no big deal, but when they have you on the ground with a gun to your head waiting for backup just to see if you are legal, that is carrying it a tad bit too far.
     
  6. squeak_D

    squeak_D Guest

    The last officer that requested my ID was very kind and polite to me. He wasn't rude in any way nor did he treat me like a criminal. His approach was great and I wish more officers would handle it the way he did.

    I was approached, he politely said: Sir, I noticed you're carrying a weapon, and if you don't mind I'd like to check your ID to verify that you're not a convicted felon. Those were his exact words... I was very pleased and was more than willing to hand him my ID. I felt like buying him a cheeseburger and fries after it :) He was very nice, he didn't take my weapon from me, he ran my ID with me standing next to him, it came back clear, he handed me my ID, and that was it. He then spent another 20 minutes just shooting the breeze with me.

    I hope my buddy gets it straightened out. It just seems that officers approach was a bit excessive.
     
  7. squeak, check out the open carry forums (http://opencarry.mywowbb.com); I'm a member there, and post in your relevant state. If OC is legal there, then I'd say, given the information you have, that what that officer did was VERY wrong and needs to be addressed, and could be false arrest, a chargeable offense and one the PD could lose a lot of money over. I carry my HP 45 all the time here in WA and only had one PD contact and I was never disarmed or cuffed......if the guy was committing a crime, he should have been charged with it, if he wasn't, there was no reason to detain him and illegally seize his weapon, thereby depriving him of his 2nd and 4th Amendment rights. I'd start with a FOIA request and make an official complaint to the internal affairs department of the PD that this guy worked for.

    Like I said, check out the OC forums and see if the guys in your state can help you there. Feel free to contact me here or on the OC forums, my username is the same in both.
     
  8. squeak_D

    squeak_D Guest

    Awesome! Thanks for the info man :) I'll pass it on to my friend. The whole things just smells funny to me. He wasn't arrested and cuffed, but he was detained, and dis-armed before any questions were even asked. The officer dis-armed him took his ID without even asking, then sat him in the back seat of the cruiser, shut the door (clearly at this point being detained), then ran his info. Just seems pretty excessive to me. I do know the officer is a rookie and hasn't been on the force long. Someone the other day (who knew the officer personally) warned me about this guy, said he's a real hot-head, and was jerk before he went into training.

    I hope I don't have a running with him.
     
  9. squeak_D

    squeak_D Guest

    I'm going to leave this alone now. My buddy has retained counsel. Hopefully they get this matter resolved. No one should be humilated like that for following the law.
     
  10. neothespian

    neothespian Member

    4,578
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    The only times I do open-carry is when I'm on a long-distance motorbike ride (over 100 miles plus). I've been pulled over twice and only once have I been asked "Can I see your ID and permit". I of course informed the local cop that I have a CCW, but I don't technically need a permit to open-carry, but here ya go! He read up on them and ran me and a few other guys. Gave ID's back to us and ticketed the new kid in the pack for speeding on Yarnell Mountain and let us on our merry.
     
  11. Compmanio is right, get record of the stop via FOIA, then file a complaint with the PD.