Recoil Junkie

Discussion in 'Lounge' started by lklawson, Nov 6, 2015.

  1. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    This post is mostly just me "thinking out loud" and collecting my thoughts in writing.

    I mentioned elsewhere that last weekend I was out shooting with some friends from Church. My son was there and, among other things, brought out his Ruger SR22 .22LR handgun. Now he's telling me that it's "feels too light."

    When I dig into what he's telling me with some questions, basically he's saying that he believes he's ready to move up from a .22LR to a center-fire handgun. :)

    I brought out my Remington 1911R1 .45ACP and he didn't like it. Recoil was a bit more than he wanted (and I think he was anticipating the recoil).

    In time, I'm going to take him out with a broad range of handguns and calibers such as my CZ70 in .32ACP and Makarov cal handguns. However, I'm really thinking that something in 9mm Para is the best option. At the moment, judging by what he says he wants now and what he says he thinks he wants it to be in the future, I'm thinking a 9mm handgun which can double for range duty and home defense with a possibility of CC in the future years (which is only 7 years away for him ;)). Naturally, I'm always on a limited budget (and I'm naturally inclined to frugality to boot) so I won't be spending a lot of money on it. In my mind there are kinda 3 handguns in the top running.

    First, the Hi Point C9. It's the king of inexpensive. But it also works, has THE warranty, a simple manual of arms, and is gentle recoiling. But, of course, while it's fine for range and home defense, it's much more challenging to CC. It's also the easiest to clean.

    Second, there's the Zastava M88A. I have no direct experience with this gun, but it certainly has a feature set that seems nearly ideal. Seems that they're running about $50-$60 more than the C9, is all steel, seems to have a decent warranty, is thin enough for CC, has a set of safety features which lend itself to both CC and home defense (like the firing pin block), and should be a pretty decent range gun. The weight of it (about the same as the C9) in combination with it's Browning-ish/Tokarev recoil system should make it a very mild recoiling handgun and the vast majority of reviews I've found seem to be positive, particularly for its price-point. But there's the sights. A statistically significant number of people seem to have issues with the sights coming loose and needing some sort of repair, often trips in for service. I've no particular experience field stripping one, but coming from the Tok lineage it doesn't look particularly challenging to strip and clean.

    Third, there's the Remington R51. My experience with this gun is that it is a fantastic choice with an excellent feature set for CC and home defense and its characteristics as a range gun are only impeded by the single-column magazine. It's all metal, has great CC features, is comfortable to hold and points naturally. It is the gentlest recoiling 9mm handgun in it's size range I've ever shot and has a more mild felt recoil than the C9, imo. It also has a really good trigger, far better than that of my C9 or what I've read of the M88A's. However, it's also the most expensive of the options, at around twice the price of a C9. It's also not available. Remington stopped production of the first generation R51, gave full refunds or replacements (an R1) for any R51 owner who wanted, and went back to Engineering to design a second generation to address issues which many gen. one R51 owners had with their guns. While every last shred of available evidence indicates that Remington hasn't given up on the R51 and will release the Gen 2 "soon," they still haven't yet. There's been ongoing rumors of when the Gen 2 release date will be (no less than 4 of them that I've heard in the gossip lanes) and every last one of them has slipped by without a Gen 2. The current speculation is that Remington will release the R51 Gen 2 shortly after they release their new pocket carry .380ACP, the RM380 (a redesign/improved-version of the Rohrbaugh).

    I figure this is most likely the last handgun I'll buy him (maybe) and as he gets older he'll be able to figure out what fits him best. But, at the same time, I want to get something that's going to meet his needs both now and in the future (for a great price ;)).

    Right now, I'm really feeling the C9 love, but the M88A is running a close second. If not for the the fact that it's not U.S. made and has a history of problems with the sights, I'd be more in that boat. I'm currently leaning away from the R51 (if it ever finally gets released) for him because of the extra expense, the fairly long time before he's eligible for CC, and because I'm unsure of what will best fit his needs and desires so much later.

    Like I said, this is mostly just me airing out my thoughts. I'm not really looking for a 4th alternative option, but if you really believe that your favorite brand/model fits the feature set better or if you feel that I've missed something in my ramblings about those three, feel encouraged to throw your opinion out. Worst I can do is disagree. :)

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  2. mn_doggie

    mn_doggie Member

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    Walther CCP?

    Nice size. It has the piston soft recoil system.

    I don't know what the cost is. Review are mixed. Most agree that the recoil is low. Many say it runs hot and the trigger is crappy.
     

  3. Think1st

    Think1st Supporting Member

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    The Walther PPS is a slick little pistol. My buddy had one, and I shot it during a range trip. That thing is very thin and is quite a little tack driver, with a trigger that, while a bit heavier than a Glocks, is just as clean breaking.
     
  4. cicpup

    cicpup Resident PITA Supporting Member

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    If he had no problem with the size then I would go with a full size 9mm. Skip the C-9. No worst than a .22. And I'd avoid the snappy little guys. Don't need him thinking a .380 is too powerful. Bet a used M-9 would put a smile on his face.
     
  5. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    Walthers? Are you guys forgetting how cheap I am? ;)

    Not sure about the used Beretta. Have to look at price tags.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  6. cicpup

    cicpup Resident PITA Supporting Member

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    It's a suggestion of classification. The Taurus copy. Ruger SR9. Whatever decent full size 9mm is in your price range. I'm guessing you'd go up to $300 for your kid. Might even have some left over for ammo. Just be sure to get something you like. Just in case he doesn't. Then daddy gets a new toy.
     
  7. Outlaw

    Outlaw Supporting Member

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    Have him try a Saiga 12 ga. with adjustable stock. O.K., maybe not ;)
     
  8. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    I'm considering having him try my Mosin carbine. :)

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  9. Fracman

    Fracman Member

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    This is a gun that he will be handing down to your grandkids. Spend some of that moldy cash you have under your mattress. Get him an all metal gun with wood grips.
     
  10. cicpup

    cicpup Resident PITA Supporting Member

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    First gun my kids shot was a Mossy 20ga bolt action. After they shot it I told them "That's about as bad as it gets. Now you have no reason to fear the rest." It worked.
     
  11. Think1st

    Think1st Supporting Member

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    I priced them on a few sites, and they were only about $370-ish. That isn't too extravagant.
     
  12. FlashBang

    FlashBang I Stand With Talon Lifetime Supporter

    If you are going to go with a 9mm, buy him an SCCY. They have a lifetime transferable no questions asked warranty, and they are the only manufacturer who will replace a lost or stolen firearm for free as part of their warranty. ;)

    .
     
  13. moona11

    moona11 King of you Monkeys Lifetime Supporter

  14. Dane

    Dane Supporting Member

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    Ruger P series in a 9mm.
     
  15. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    I will let him shoot my Kel Tec P11, which is what SCCY copied when they made their gun, but I suspect that the recoil will be objectionable.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  16. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

  17. Dane

    Dane Supporting Member

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    Threaded barrel for $20 more. [​IMG]
     
  18. moona11

    moona11 King of you Monkeys Lifetime Supporter

    My son has a Ruger 9 that I handed down to him but he like the Walther better.
     
  19. moona11

    moona11 King of you Monkeys Lifetime Supporter

    My son doesn't like the recoil on the P11 either.
     
  20. Dane

    Dane Supporting Member

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    Is that a P89?