red dots for survival use?

Discussion in 'Vintage Topic Archive (Sept - 2009)' started by rimfirehunter, Dec 13, 2007.

  1. How many here would or would not consider using a red dot sight on a survival firearm?

    Just to start this off, I have two guns with dot sights. One is a Springfield Armory M6 Scout .22lr/.410 survival rifle and the other is my Ruger .22lr pistol. I have used both guns extensively at the range and in the woods for hunting small game and have a lot of confidence in the dot sights. I have a small waist pouch I carry that contains spare batteries for just in case and both guns have open sights as backup in the event the dot sights become inoperable.

    My centerfire guns are generally open sight only or have optical scopes with open sight backup's. I am one who has no use for a gun that does not have open sights, but thats just me.

    rimfirehunter
     
  2. With all the trouble that I have encountered with the more inexpensive red dot sights, I wouldn't trust my survival on a red dot. Now, if I could find a red dot that has quality electronics, can withstand repeated rapid/semi rapid fire and not go out or be affected by the recoil, then I might consider it. That sight would have to have hundreds, if not thousands of rounds under it's belt before I'd trust it.
     

  3. Mine have all treated me good so far, spare batteries should last for years. And the nice thing about them is if they stop working its just a couple of screws to have them off of the weapon
     
  4. Thayldt21

    Thayldt21 Senior Member Member

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    I would not use a red dot for survival.

    Beside I am a faster shot without the red dot.
     
  5. My tired old eyes like scopes on rifles and I took the red/green dot off the AR to put on the 995. I much prefer it to the factory iron sights which are kept in the gun case should they be needed. I keep an extra battery, unopened in its package, tucked under the elastic of the mag pouch on the stock.
    I'm currently using the BUIS on the AR and haven't decided whether to buy another red dot or something else for it.
     
  6. I keep a pair of batteries for the red dot on my 995 inside the buttstock mag holder as well. I keep a set of tear down tools there too. While I do not think a red dot is the absolute best for SHTF use, I have on on my 995 for its role as a "bump in the night" gun...

    I have been playing around with a scope ring and a torn down factory rear iron sight in an attempt to make some sort of rear sight that can be attached to the factory scope rail. In that configuration, with the red dot, I will be able to use the irons should the red dot take a crap....

    The height issue and the short factory scope rail are a bit of an impediment, but I believe once I get it worked out, I will be more comfortable should I have to use my 995 in a SHTF scenario...
     
  7. Kelotravolski

    Kelotravolski Member

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    at which point it wears out and breaks. :D
     
  8. I had a Aimpoint dot sight that had about 7 years of use and at least 10k of rounds thru it on a 10/22 and when I sold the rifle it was still good as new. Low end dot sights are sometime hit or miss for long term reliability, especially the really cheap ones sold on some of the "tactical" web sites these days.

    About the best low end dot sights I have used are the BSA RD30 you see at Wal Mart for around $30. The one I have is 6 yrs old and I have only replaced the battery once, its been mounted on the M6 Scout, Ruger .22 pistol, and two other rifles at different time. Another decent dot sight is the 1" tube model from Bushnell, been having execellent results with it and never had an issue with it walking zero like one of the cheap 1" dot sights I had before.
     
  9. SHOOTER Z

    SHOOTER Z Well-Known Member

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    I have a red dot on my 4095 as soon as I can i will buy from HiPoint a new reciever shroud with iron sights and have it ready if the dot fails and /or cannot get batteries then just replace the shroud with iron sights. As some have said their eyes [as mine] are getting old and tired when you young whippersnappers get to the point where sighting is a problem you'll understand :wink:
     
  10. vallen

    vallen Member

    No WAY would I trust a Red Dot for survival. The point is to minimize as many elements of of errors/ malfunction as possible.
    With the exception of $250+ scopes, most should NOT be trusted due to cheap electronics and poor build quality that will not stand up to an extreme condition of survival. Batteries? another thing to lug around. If the SHTF do you really want to mess with your scope?

    You might / probably be running around, strategizing, gathering necessities, (and quite possibly getting a bang or two on that scope)- No way do you want to think 2wice about your accuracy.

    My eyes are old too, but it can be overcome with training and a Tibetan eye chart to compensate for aging. Understand hyperfocal distances with your gun!

    And also of note: some of you guys are the same folks talking about EMP issues. What do you think is in that Red Dot? a hamster with a typewriter?

    where's the pancake when you need it?
     
  11. Kelotravolski

    Kelotravolski Member

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    [​IMG]

    There it is! :)
     
  12. Well, I would say if you want it keep it on there but have a back up. Also, make sure you can take it off quick (or you can see your secondary sights through it) in case it goes bad on you at the worst possible time. Unfortunatly, the rail on the 995 is not big enough to accomodate both systems.
     
  13. SHOOTER Z

    SHOOTER Z Well-Known Member

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    Tibetan eye chart ? How about the Puruvian eye chart or the Hungarian one as well? :lol: As I stated I WILL be getting the iron sights as well but YA my eyes are old and I like the red dot if it doesn't work then I will replace it. Your all sounding off as it this is gonna be an armed assault and your in a big war . Before that happens the sight can be changed. In case of an EMP the sight can be changed over. Geesh folks why don't you give the rest of us out here the credit of knowing a few things. We are not all completely brain dead and do know a few things.
     
  14. SharpsShtr

    SharpsShtr Member

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    SHTF on a regular course of events on the other side of the world. Many of our troops are using red dot or holographic sights on a regular basis, with good effect. If they work for them, I'm thinking we'll do okay with them too. The standard caveat applies though, pick your equipment wisely. As I learned years ago, a cheap tool isn't always the most inexpensive tool.


    Matt
     
  15. vallen

    vallen Member

    Key Point is Professional Military are not using $29.99 red dots.
    If you want to have something ready for SHTF, it should be 'ready'. And keeping the minimum amount of errors in any situation. All kinds of little errors add up to big losses, even if it's calories, body heat, time wasted looking for your hex wrench in the BOB, etc.. Keep it as simple as possible.

    And you guys can joke about the eye chart, but it works. Eyes have hundreds of muscles, you have to exercise them. Esp. if you sit in front of the arse tube all day.
     
  16. SharpsShtr

    SharpsShtr Member

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    Hence the earlier statement "pick your equipment wisely"


    Matt
     
  17. dirtimdebbie

    dirtimdebbie Guest

    How do you know?

    Cost is not a fair measurement with the military.

    They pay $600 for tolit seats don't they?

    the unit cost for Baretta pistols is only around $100 each the last figures I saw!

    We bought a scope and mount for the AR and sent it to my brother when he did his tour. I took it back when I did mine. Tasco from Wall-Mart. It held up fine.
     
  18. vallen

    vallen Member

    I know because Tasco, BSA or any other cheap-o scope isn't on the Purchase Roll. Quality optics, yes. I don't think I have seen ANY combat personnel with a cheap red dot, ever.
     
  19. A person has chosen his/her equipment based on their needs and more importantly what they can afford to spend. A $500 dot sight is useless to someone who can only afford a $50 dot sight no matter how good/dependable the high end unit is. Use what you have and made do until you can afford to do better or someone else is willing to provide you with a better setup.

    As far as the military, I know a lot of guys who deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan with products they bought off the shelf because at the time the military didnt provide them with what was working in the field.
     
  20. dirtimdebbie

    dirtimdebbie Guest

    Rimfire Hunter, a man of great wisdom, who probably does not have a $500 Aimpoint on a $200 Hi-Point!!!