[CamoDeafie]

Over at Reddit, it has been getting a lot of positive feedback and comments...
The idea?
What if the US military never adopted MOLLE? What if they stuck with ALICE, and the LBVs, and then developed plate carriers sort of like the ISAPO shape but modular and with side panels?

We see this ALICE modularity idea with the USMC Modular LBV
Marine Modular Load Bearing Vest – Gear Illustration

And the PACA soft armor vest with ALICE webbing on the front

And the Blackhawk Omega Modular vest

ISAPO vest

So; my idea in drawing for now..

Basically; it would be based somewhat on the Interim Small Arms Protective Overvest (ISAPO); but with soft armor backers inside and in the cummerbund... with a new 4-magazine front panel that attaches via ALICE keepers and the QD assemblies lifted from the ALICE Ruck shoulder straps.. the closures are ALICE magazine closures, and I have two sets of matching gray 2.25" LC QD replacement buckles, as well as the 2.25" webbing. I need to acquire 3/4" ladder lock buckles for the back so I can attach the 1970s-1990s ALICE 3 day training pack/buttpack. The materials I will be using are shown here.. 420D ebay Ranger Green which looks closer to the old dark OD of ALICE pouches; and RG webbing in 3/4", 1", 1.75", 2", and 2.25" next to 500D Eagle Ranger Green and other 1", 1.5", 2" Ranger Green webbing.

Ignore the 1-23/32" straps and hardware from LC kidney pad sets they will go to something else for now, maybe a padded battle belt.. or something else entirely.

 

[RACHGIER]

We actually went straight from the PASGT to the IBA, because the ISAPO sucked horrible, ungodly, heavy, dependapotomus ass... Go with an IBA base because it's semi modular with throat, groin, flank, and deltoid/bicep panels.

 

[CamoDeafie]

We actually went straight from the PASGT to the IBA, because the ISAPO sucked horrible, ungodly, heavy, dependapotomus ass... Go with an IBA base because it's semi modular with throat, groin, flank, and deltoid/bicep panels.

How? I mean....it's just rectangle plate bags.... certainly not as heavy as the old Chicken Plate armor? Maybe its the Ranger ceramic plates that were stupid heavy compared to the SAPI/ESAPI/XSAPI series?

In combination with the PASGT vest, yeah I can see why its stupid heavy...


But the design I drew up?

Its stand alone, and pretty much like the current generation of minimalist plate carriers except for the shaping, as the armor set I want to use.. has 10x12 rectangle 3a panels to layer behind the older Level 3/Special threat ICW multicurve ceramic plates.


Edit. Also; I don't have IBA inserts. This is more designed towards the current trend of standalone Level 3 or 4 plates

Edit.2. Okay. Holy shit. The 10x12 Ranger ceramic plates, at least the earliest ones.. were 8 fricking pounds each and meant to be worn over the PASGT? Good lord, there's a lot of Level 4 standalone plates in that weight class that doesn't need soft armor backers

The carrier itself cannot be as heavy as you make it out to be, when compared to the SPEAR BALCS carriers, the IBA carrier, or the IMTVs and IOTV gen 3 carriers but they all have soft armor...while this carrier design doesn't seem to have the soft armor panels except the much lighter (under 1 lb each) backers that I have. Also, my ICW plates are about 5 lbs each so thats still lighter than the old shite?

 

[RACHGIER]

The ISAPO was worn in conjunction with the PASGT, LBE, or RBA. 20lbs of screw this, strapped on to 15lbs of screw that, with another 25+lbs of boom, plus a 30+lb ruck equals well over 100lbs of "how about you come carry this shit for me."

Believe me when I tell you that 35lbs of body armor BLOWS!

 

[CamoDeafie]

The ISAPO was worn in conjunction with the PASGT, LBE, or RBA. 20lbs of screw this, strapped on to 15lbs of screw that, with another 25+lbs of boom, plus a 30+lb ruck equals well over 100lbs of "how about you come carry this shit for me."

Believe me when I tell you that 35lbs of body armor BLOWS!

I believe you, and countless reports of destroyed knees and spines from veterans.
All the more reason the very basic design, as a stand alone design.. makes sense with standalone plates or minimal armor, as opposed to the IBA turtle suit with DAP, dick flap, or all the extra armor pieces. Front/back plates, maybe side soft armor, just 4 main 30rd mags, a radio, maybe 6 extra mags in old ALICE triples on the sides, and a hydro pouch over a buttpack that may carry additional gear... oh and an old school Jungle IFAK insert.

 

[RACHGIER]

I believe you, and countless reports of destroyed knees and spines from veterans.
All the more reason the very basic design, as a stand alone design.. makes sense with standalone plates or minimal armor, as opposed to the IBA turtle suit with DAP, dick flap, or all the extra armor pieces. Front/back plates, maybe side soft armor, just 4 main 30rd mags, a radio, maybe 6 extra mags in old ALICE triples on the sides, and a hydro pouch over a buttpack that may carry additional gear... oh and an old school Jungle IFAK insert.

I would (read as did) rock a set of old school deuce gear and a boonie cover and take my chances instead of the ISAPO/PASGT system we had.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Okay. Lets look at the drawing I made. Where does it look like its going over something like PASGT vest? granted, yes the ISAPO was meant to be worn over a PASGT vest or soft armor vest but....... the design is more in line with these current standalone plate carrier designs..

So other than the old school ALICE/LC webbing and fittings, there's probably not much realistic differences between the design I drew up, and these modern carriers?

 

[RACHGIER]

You're the one who said you were basing it on the old ISAPO design...

I said use the IBA as a base if you wanted a retro look because the ISAPO sucked.

I see you looked it up and found out how heavy those bitches were after doubting me. Ceramics were 8lbs each, steel was closer to 10. In the beginning they weren't cut for lefties or righties either.

Silly ideas are one thing but call it what it is. All you want to do is swap the mounting system on a modern lightweight plate carrier from molle type to the older Alice system...

There's no breakthrough redesign here. You're just putting white walls on a modern rim...

 

[CamoDeafie]

You're the one who said you were basing it on the old ISAPO design...

I said use the IBA as a base if you wanted a retro look because the ISAPO sucked.

I see you looked it up and found out how heavy those bitches were after doubting me. Ceramics were 8lbs each, steel was closer to 10. In the beginning they weren't cut for lefties or righties either.

Silly ideas are one thing but call it what it is. All you want to do is swap the mounting system on a modern lightweight plate carrier from molle type to the older Alice system...

There's no breakthrough redesign here. You're just putting white walls on a modern rim...

Pretty much. The ISAPO carrier on its own, was the starting point. I initially thought about keeping the simple side strap (hence the 1 23/32" straps and hardware). The idea is what if we skipped over the whole MOLLE era with the IBA and shit straight to the modern lightweight stuff with ALICE.... of course, no major total redesign.. except for the placard thingy (versus sticking 3-4 ALICE triples on the front ).

 

[CamoDeafie]

So... the Aussies used it because we pretty much gave all of the ones made (about 4,000?) And it looks like they didn't even wear flak jackets/PASGTs under the ISAPOs... anyways. Yeah. The silly idea is the replacement of modern MOLLE/swift clip/tubes/velcro/elastic stuff with old style ALICE webbing/hardware on an otherwise modern plate carrier whose general layout goes back to the ISAPO (rectangle bags and simple shoulder straps). I only have 10x12 rectangle 3a soft armor backers for the 10x12 ICW plates, and only because I wasn't sure what "cut" they were and didn't want to risk getting the wrong cut.

 

[RACHGIER]

That's all the ISAPO ever was, really. A straight up hanging plate carrier. It was a temporary upgrade to protect the vitals because...flak jackets suck.

The knee-jerk reaction that was the IBA turtle shell happened because we were getting shot around the plates.

Now we're back to integrated modular systems that do a much better job of protecting you than handing two sandbags with steel plates around your neck but aren't as restrictive as running around looking like a COD juggernaut...

If I wasn't built like a manatee I would probably rock one of the newer SPC's. Since it's more a retro mount and not retro look you want why not look at the USMC Scalable Plate Carriers as your base?

Your drawing looks like more like the SPC than the ISAPO.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Its not just the mounting. Its also the LC ruck QDs in place of modern swift clips, the LBV style paracord lacing adjustment with those Fixlock 194 cord locks, the use of LC pistol belt gray buckles, and the use of ALICE pouch closures on the 4-mag front panel design. Hell, one idea was to sew up a sort of V/slanted "pontoon" pads in the style of the old LC Y harness to go from the back bag over the shoulders under the 2" straps... not sure for the front...

I only have a set of 10x12 rectangle soft armor backers for my 10x12 ICW lightweight plates; so that mostly preclude using the USMC SPC shape because those things have non-removable ballistic armor insides. That's why I'm doing sort of KISS rectangle front and back bags, with the cummerbund pieces being padded first, maybe eventually armored with soft inserts. Would have to figure out side armor plates if I decide they're warranted.

I do have the Safariland 2XL soft armor thats in my current self-made woodland MOLLE carrier but honestly that thing is a little heavy and hot due to how much it covers.

 

[RACHGIER]

So you are basically trying to reinvent the wheel around what you have and want us to..... say what? How cool it is, or go for it, or something?

Now I'm not saying people are ignorant, but you do realize that a fairly large chunk of people won't know what we're talking about without Google?

If you want to do it your way, go do it your way. You don't like the angular cut of the USMC ISPC or SPC, then check out the Army SPCS from KDH. It's 22lbs of square carrier with shoulder straps and options for side straps, a cummerbund, or flank plate pouches with room in all of the pouches for soft armor behind the plates, both SAPI and ESBI.

 

[ajole]

Most of us just buy whatever is for sale on Amazon.....

 

[CamoDeafie]

Most of us just buy whatever is for sale on Amazon.....

And then theres madmen like me who comes up with the silly ideas and designs. Idle mind and devils playground and all that.

Edit. I can't bloody well leave the materials and hardware alone

 

[Rerun]

And then theres madmen like me who comes up with the silly ideas and designs. Idle mind and devils playground and all that.

Edit. I can't bloody well leave the materials and hardware alone

How about making a soogan for camping?

eldar

 

[CamoDeafie]

How about making a soogan for camping?

eldar

The f is a soogan????

 

[Rerun]

The f is a soogan????

Cowboy bedroll.

There are other names.

Canvas outer sleeve with a couple of folded wool blankets inside.

eldar

 

[CamoDeafie]

Cowboy bedroll.

There are other names.

Canvas outer sleeve with a couple of folded wool blankets inside.

eldar

What do they do that a regular sleeping bag on top of modern bed pads or camp mattress cannot do?

 

[Rerun]

What do they do that a regular sleeping bag on top of modern bed pads or camp mattress cannot do?

Roll up with your personal effects and spare clothes to be carried behind you on horseback.

eldar