[Think1st]

As many of you know, I am still relatively new to revolvers, but I've tried to make up for lost time with the Rugers I've bought over the last couple of years. I have 1373 rounds of various .357 Magnum rounds through my GP100 and 800 rounds of various .44 Magnum rounds through my Redhawk.

My questions have to do with both end shake, weapon behavior as it heats up, and copper shaving.

To start with, I don't typically purchase or run the non-magnum versions of these guns' primary chamberings because I am a firm believer in the idea that I should train with them using what I would use either for hunting or self defense, and I also get a LOT of pleasure from watching what they do to steel plates at 25 yards. With that in mind, I may be putting more wear on my revolvers than other users might.

I know that these revolvers, as Rugers, are more robust than the average revolver, but nothing is invulnerable to wear.

1. Regarding end shake, my GP100 has absolutely no movement from front to rear, while the Redhawk has a very slight amount of movement. I read some material about acceptable amounts of movement and how to use shims to fix it if it gets excessive.

a) Have any of you experienced end shake in your revolvers?
b) If so, after how many rounds did you observe it?

2. Have you experienced difficulty closing the cylinder or binding in double-action as your revolvers get too hot to touch?

3. a) Have you observed fine copper shavings accumulate on the table below your revolver as you shoot it?

b) If so, after how many rounds did it begin to occur?

 

[Pistolkitty]

Okay I do not claim to be a revolver guru in any way shape or form, but i do have many thousands more rounds through my revolvers than my pistols. Just because. I do like my revolvers. Grew up learning to shoot on them. Which I think is why I don't have the trigger issues on pistols that so many seem to have.

Anyway, as many thousands of rounds I have collectively put through my super Blackhawk, my 30 s/w, my henry, as well as many other revolvers my dad had over the years, I have never had the issues you are describing. Even with many questionable hand loads over the years. So I am wondering what other details you might be omitting. Or I'm just lucky. Except I'm not that lucky generally. So hmm.

 

[Pistolkitty]

Now that i think of it I have had a few issues of split casings in my 38. But im positive that was too hot hand loads in shells liaded perhaps 1 too many times.

 

[Pistolkitty]

38, not 30. Somehow I cant edit my posts through tapatalk anymore

 

[OldOutlaw]

3. a) Have you observed fine copper shavings accumulate on the table below your revolver as you shoot it?

Very, very definitely I have in our 38 spl's. It seems to be certain brands of ammo. Even, certain lots of ammo. Best watch that. It can and does make the cylinder stick and not rotate after X rounds on a given day.
Usually it is always a lower cost ammo. My suspicion is the bullet dia. is a bit oversize for the barrel throat. Same can and does happen with some semi auto pistols. Not so much heard about that lately. The Walmart ammo discussed here long ago did it a lot in 9mm. Can't remember the name of it. TNT likely can tell you.

 

[SWAGA]

You probably googled this yourself already

https://www.grantcunningham.com/2007/01/the-importance-of-endshake/

I don't shoot my .357 often enough.
Matter of fact can't remember last time I shot it.....

 

[Think1st]

Okay I do not claim to be a revolver guru in any way shape or form, but i do have many thousands more rounds through my revolvers than my pistols. Just because. I do like my revolvers. Grew up learning to shoot on them. Which I think is why I don't have the trigger issues on pistols that so many seem to have.

Anyway, as many thousands of rounds I have collectively put through my super Blackhawk, my 30 s/w, my henry, as well as many other revolvers my dad had over the years, I have never had the issues you are describing. Even with many questionable hand loads over the years. So I am wondering what other details you might be omitting. Or I'm just lucky. Except I'm not that lucky generally. So hmm.

Issues two and three are the only ones I've experienced, and those were with the Redhawk when I was shooting PPU 240gr JSP, with a velocity rating stated as 1500+ FPS. It certainly packs a wallop compared to other loads I've put through it. Well, at least only the copper dust accumulation. The overheating happens regardless of the round after I've gone through more than a box, non-stop. I get into these rhythms where I reload and empty the cylinder without stopping, and a box disappears pretty quickly that way. After that, the overheating happens, and I end up giving it about 10-15 minutes after every three cylinders for the rest of the session.

 

[Pistolkitty]

Well my 38 snubb does get pretty hot to the touch after 4 or more cylinders in a row, but i didn't ses that as a problem, just figured its normal. It's a heavy chunk of metal.

 

[Think1st]

Very, very definitely I have in our 38 spl's. It seems to be certain brands of ammo. Even, certain lots of ammo. Best watch that. It can and does make the cylinder stick and not rotate after X rounds on a given day.
Usually it is always a lower cost ammo. My suspicion is the bullet dia. is a bit oversize for the barrel throat. Same can and does happen with some semi auto pistols. Not so much heard about that lately. The Walmart ammo discussed here long ago did it a lot in 9mm. Can't remember the name of it. TNT likely can tell you.

Good point on the ammo brand. I observed the copper dust with some really hot PPU. Those Serbs load everything hot. I've shot a lot of their stuff because of its price and accuracy.

 

[Think1st]

Well my 38 snubb does get pretty hot to the touch after 4 or more cylinders in a row, but i didn't ses that as a problem, just figured its normal. It's a heavy chunk of metal.

The heat, itself, isn't a problem and really is normal as you figure. Expanding cylinders, now that is a problem. I can only attribute that to a really tight cylinder gap--one that's abnormally so. I guess I can't complain, though. It makes the revolver really accurate.

 

[Think1st]

You probably googled this yourself already

https://www.grantcunningham.com/2007/01/the-importance-of-endshake/

I don't shoot my .357 often enough.
Matter of fact can't remember last time I shot it.....

Hey, I read that article before posting this thread. Good read.

But, dude, you need to go give that lonely revolver some attention. Imagine how sad it must be, all by itself in that cold, dark safe.

 

[TNTRAILERTRASH]

All I know is Bro got the 1864 Colt working that my uncle found in great-great grandpa's smoke house. (the one with the 2 notches in the left grip) Couldn't get it to fire the caps. He removed the cylinder and took a .45acp shell to place the cylinder further towards the hammer. Tubing cutter worked good. We took it out and shot it with regular pistol powder (small amount) and some hammered down 230gr plated .45acp bullets.

 

[greg_r]

1. Regarding end shake, my GP100 has absolutely no movement from front to rear, while the Redhawk has a very slight amount of movement. I read some material about acceptable amounts of movement and how to use shims to fix it if it gets excessive.

a) Have any of you experienced end shake in your revolvers?
b) If so, after how many rounds did you observe it?

all revolvers will have some end shake. You need to know your barrel cylinder gap to determine your endshake. With the cylinder full of empty brass What is the biggest feeler gauge you can place between your barrel and cylinder and pull the trigger to completely advance the cylinder. This will give you your pass measurement. Run the test again and find out which feeler gauge will cause the cylinder to bind before the cylinder completely advances. This will be your hold measurement. The difference between these two measurements will be your endshake.

Personally I believe a pass measurement of .003 and a hold measurement of .004 is just about right. .006 and .008 are acceptable. If your hold measurement reaches .009 or more you need to have an extra thread cut into the barrel and set the barrel back or have a long cylinder fitted. Endshake that goes over .003 gets a .002 shim installed.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1004130555?pid=519485

2. Have you experienced difficulty closing the cylinder or binding in double-action as your revolvers get too hot to touch?

Generally no. I have had dirty revolvers bind. I have had a 22 revolver that had a very tight barrel cylinder gap that would start binding after several cylinders full. A quick brushing of the cylinder face would fix it for a few more cylinders full. I finally tired of it and had the cylinder shaved. Problem solved.

3. a) Have you observed fine copper shavings accumulate on the table below your revolver as you shoot it?

b) If so, after how many rounds did it begin to occur?

If your revolver is shaving bullets you most likely have a timing problem. Call Ruger.

 

[Think1st]

all revolvers will have some end shake. You need to know your barrel cylinder gap to determine your endshake. With the cylinder full of empty brass What is the biggest feeler gauge you can place between your barrel and cylinder and pull the trigger to completely advance the cylinder. This will give you your pass measurement. Run the test again and find out which feeler gauge will cause the cylinder to bind before the cylinder completely advances. This will be your hold measurement. The difference between these two measurements will be your endshake.

Personally I believe a pass measurement of .003 and a hold measurement of .004 is just about right. .006 and .008 are acceptable. If your hold measurement reaches .009 or more you need to have an extra thread cut into the barrel and set the barrel back or have a long cylinder fitted. Endshake that goes over .003 gets a .002 shim installed.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1004130555?pid=519485

Generally no. I have had dirty revolvers bind. I have had a 22 revolver that had a very tight barrel cylinder gap that would start binding after several cylinders full. A quick brushing of the cylinder face would fix it for a few more cylinders full. I finally tired of it and had the cylinder shaved. Problem solved.

If your revolver is shaving bullets you most likely have a timing problem. Call Ruger.

I tried wiping down the cylinder when it got to where it was binding or wouldn't close, but that was of no use. Only a cool-down worked. I think the Redhawk might just have a really tight tolerance, which I don't mind much. It just means that it will be quite a while before it does need shimmer.

As for the copper dust, is it still a sign of shaving if accuracy is unaffected, or can it result from jacket material coming loose from the projectile's base under the crimping if the round is really hot? The Redhawk is dead-on accurate and groups well.

 

[greg_r]

I tried wiping down the cylinder when it got to where it was binding or wouldn't close, but that was of no use. Only a cool-down worked. I think the Redhawk might just have a really tight tolerance, which I don't mind much. It just means that it will be quite a while before it does need shimmer.

As for the copper dust, is it still a sign of shaving if accuracy is unaffected, or can it result from jacket material coming loose from the projectile's base under the crimping if the round is really hot? The Redhawk is dead-on accurate and groups well.

are you using jacketed or plated? Do you flip the cylinder closed with a flick of the wrist or do you push the cylinder into the frame with your hand? Is the forcing cone rough? How much end play? Is the hand or bolt worn? Is it dust or shavings?

Lots of questions and most of them lead directly to an out of time revolver. If a revolver is shaving bullets something is not lining up.

FWIW, I cringe when I see a person flip the cylinder home on a revolver. It will bend the crane. You might not be able to see the bend because it only takes a few thousands of an inch. Kind of like how a slight misalignment of the sights makes for a major impact shift at range. A bent crane equals an out of alignment cylinder.

If it is dust maybe it's a rough forcing cone that is eating away at the bullet jacket. I typically shoot lead where a rough forcing cone typically causes leading, but I can see where it might cause copper dust if shooting jacketed.

It's worth a call to Ruger. Their customer service is top notch. If it needs repair they will fix it for you. If it doesn't, they will let you know.

 

[SWAGA]

I’m thinking that even if a bullet is presented centered it will shave....as its slightly oversized.
Shouldn’t it be?

 

[TNTRAILERTRASH]

I'm thinking that even if a bullet is presented centered it will shave....as its slightly oversized.
Shouldn't it be?

"forcing cone" sounds violent yet it is beveled for the ease of transition to the spinny things that direct the freedom pills to their intended destinations.

 

[greg_r]

I'm thinking that even if a bullet is presented centered it will shave....as its slightly oversized.
Shouldn't it be?

The forcing cone allows for a minute amount of misalignment between the chamber and bore. It's purpose is to center the bullet to the bore. It should not cause any shaving. Much like the leade in a Rifles chamber. There will be no brass shavings in the leade.

Hence my comment about a rough forcing cone and brass dust. I am curious if there are brass deposits in the forcing cone?

 

[SWAGA]

@Think1st
Too much end play or too much fore play whaddaya think?

 

[Think1st]

are you using jacketed or plated? Do you flip the cylinder closed with a flick of the wrist or do you push the cylinder into the frame with your hand? Is the forcing cone rough? How much end play? Is the hand or bolt worn? Is it dust or shavings?

Lots of questions and most of them lead directly to an out of time revolver. If a revolver is shaving bullets something is not lining up.

FWIW, I cringe when I see a person flip the cylinder home on a revolver. It will bend the crane. You might not be able to see the bend because it only takes a few thousands of an inch. Kind of like how a slight misalignment of the sights makes for a major impact shift at range. A bent crane equals an out of alignment cylinder.

If it is dust maybe it's a rough forcing cone that is eating away at the bullet jacket. I typically shoot lead where a rough forcing cone typically causes leading, but I can see where it might cause copper dust if shooting jacketed.

It's worth a call to Ruger. Their customer service is top notch. If it needs repair they will fix it for you. If it doesn't, they will let you know.

I never flick the cylinders closed. I close them deliberately and even ensure to impart a very minute counter-clockwise rotation as I lock them, just to ensure that the hand and timing ratchet star don't clash.

As for what ends up on the table, it's a very fine dust.