Russia? Polish? Bulgarian? Hungarian? Wha-Ta-Do?

Discussion in 'General Firearms Discussion' started by cicpup, Feb 16, 2015.

  1. cicpup

    cicpup Resident PITA Supporting Member

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    Leaning towards a Makarov next. Looking around I see many choices. If not sweating cost, which would be my best choice for the first one?
     
  2. bscar

    bscar Supporting Member

    I'd opt for the Polish P64 from classic.
     

  3. SWAGA

    SWAGA No longer broke... Lifetime Supporter

    Some of 'em have a larger mag capacity then others I believe.
    Something to look for.
    Even the Yugo M57 has one more round then the T33 or other Tokarev variants.
     
  4. cicpup

    cicpup Resident PITA Supporting Member

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    Why?

    Not going to be my carry piece. I'm wondering more on the lines of value, rarity, desirability, so on & so forth. I'm thinking Russian because they at least invented the damn thing. War, cop or civi? So many factors.

    Anyone got at least a better study course than wikipedia? Where I can really compare and get a better history.
     
  5. Grant

    Grant Member

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    The Polish are the most common and would be the cheapest way to get going down this road. Check Classic, Royal Tiger and maybe Southern Ohio guns for some of the best prices.
     
  6. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    A Makarov? The East German examples are considered the most desirable but Bulgarians are 2nd on the list. If you can find one, a Norinico is considered a score, not because they're better but because they're rarer (thanks to Bill Clitton's banning of Chinese arms & ammo).

    The P64 is a dandy little shooter. Very accurate with very nice bluing (depending on holster wear). But they kick like an angry mule and the DA trigger, when stock, is beyond atrocious.

    The PA-63 is a nice carry piece. Its aluminum frame makes it lighter than its other Makarov chambered brethren and you also get a two-tone gun in the bargain. But don't feed it "hot" ammo; it's hard on the aluminum frame. While better than the P64's DA trigger, the PA-63's DA trigger isn't anything to write home about.

    The P83 was the successor to the P64 and is, in many ways, superior to its predecessor. It has one more round in the mag, a better trigger, and better ergos. But the "production values" aren't near as nice. The bluing isn't as good and the trigger guard is a sheet metal stamping.

    The CZ82 was all the rage for a while and with lots of good reasons. It's a "high capacity" gun with a stock 12+1 capacity, very good ergos, and a trigger that stands above most in the surplus market. The sources have mostly dried up so you'll be paying more for one than a few years ago. The finish on the '82s often leave much to be desired. They came, stock, with a type of black paint finish which frequently chipped and wore unevenly. Spare parts, by way of the now discontinued CZ83 (civilian .380ACP version) are still available, making it far easier to get replacement parts for than the P64 or the PA-63, by comparison.

    Again, difficult to find are the IMEZ Makarovs. These were Russian made guns specifically for export and sale on the civilian market. They had adjustable rear sights and non-military markings. The finish was a very durable black. They came in two models, the "high capacity" and the "8 round capacity," and in two calibers per model, .380ACP and 9x18 Makarov. The 8 round model is more-or-less a clone of the military Makarov "PM" but with adjustable sights and slightly different grips. It is, thus, nearly 100% parts compatible with the standard Makarov "PM." The "high capacity" model used a widened grip and some wonky magazines (which, themselves, can be quite expensive) but was otherwise the same as the 8 round model. Still mostly parts compatible, but the frame and some associated parts were not.
    IJ70-18AH = 12 round, 9x18 Makarov
    IJ70-17AH = 12 round, .380ACP
    IJ70-18A = 8 round, 9x18 Makarov
    IJ70-17A = 8 round, .380ACP

    In your place, I'd probably look for an East German or Bulgarian Makarov PM.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2015
  7. lklawson

    lklawson Staff Member

    The Russian models are considered less desirable by collectors because their quality was slightly lower than others. The best quality was considered to be the East German examples, followed closely by the Bulgarians. Of course, condition can change a "desirable" East German gun into a gun you give to newbies at the range because you don't care if they drop it in the gravel.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  8. cicpup

    cicpup Resident PITA Supporting Member

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    Thank you Sir. Exactly what I was hoping for. Post saved for reference.
     
  9. bscar

    bscar Supporting Member

    Because it was the only one I could think of. :cool:
     
  10. travis9mm

    travis9mm Member

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    If you like the Tokarev TT33 may i suggest the Zastava m88a? 9mm. A lot like the Tok but much smaller.[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Break down is much like the Colt/Browning design. I got mine for $321 out the door. And comes with 2 mags and cleaning brush
     
  11. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

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    Ok....what are you really asking?

    Do you want an actual Makarov, or just a 9x18 Mak bullet launcher?

    If you want a Makarov, Kirk's got it right. East German, (you won't probably find one, if you do, it'll be expensive) then Bulgarian, anything else is hard to find, but perfectly acceptable. I have the basic Russian commercial version, adjustable sights, good trigger, but not as smoothly finished inside. The high cap model might be a way to go.

    If you want a gun that just happens to be 9X18, go straight to the CZ82. 12 rounds, great DA/SA trigger, really good solid guns. Mine was about perfect, great finish, smooth as could be. Again Kirk has it right...but he missed this bit...

    It's a freaking CZ! They are FINE bits of craftsmanship.:)

    All the others are just not as good. Perfectly good guns, but not in the same class. Kirk nailed it, but I'm gonna say it too.

    To me...the P64 is too heavy, but still recoils hard, though flat and small, easy to conceal. Tough trigger.
    The PA-63 is too light...it kicks more than the P64, lots like the PF-9, but without the terminal performance of the 9x19. Mine has a decent trigger, I think the previous owner worked it or stoned it into a decent feel.

    I have no input on the 83, but Kirk has been right on every other one, so I'd bet on his call again.

    Why do you want a Mak?
     
  12. ajole

    ajole Supporting Member

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    Not Tokarev...Makarov.;)

    Come on, Comrade, learn the lingo.:D
     
  13. cicpup

    cicpup Resident PITA Supporting Member

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    Yup. Kirk was spot on. I was thinking collectable. If I decide on a lead flinger I'll probably be sacrilegious and go for the IMEZ .380 version due to ammo cost & availability.
     
  14. SWAGA

    SWAGA No longer broke... Lifetime Supporter


    Read between the lines comrade Ajole.
    What I meant was different countries' versions have different capacities lle it is the case with the Tokarev.
    I'm no expert but I did know about the 8-12 round versions.