Hi-Point Firearms Forums banner
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
G

·
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just got the star trek c9 it won't feed corbons 125 JHP, FMJ fines not one FTF or FTE just need to find a JHP that will cycle. In the manuel is says don't carry the gun loaded. I carry my bersa thunder 9 safety off because its a 13 pound pull is carrying a c9 without a safety a no no?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,349 Posts
I sure wouldn't... the safety is super easy for most people to operate with their thumb, and you can train yourself to switch safety off while drawing. I've heard this is how the secret service is trained. Why do you carry with safety off?
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
just bought a box of hydroshock, hand cycles fine will see when i go to the range on thursday
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
514 Posts
I would say that carrying with the safety off is an AD waiting to happen. The trigger pull on these seems to be around 5 lbs. That's not NEARLY enough for me to risk carrying with the safety off.

cheers,
Kyu
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Carrying a SA pistol with a round in the chamber and no safety is crazy. It might not appear as dangerous, because there's no visible hammer.

Look at it this way.... would you carry a revolver with the hammer back?
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
514 Posts
Look at it this way.... would you carry a revolver with the hammer back?
Excellent analogy!
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
NYPD undercover officers carried glocks with lighting strikes triggers to insure they wouldn't go off in there pants. And no i would not carry my DA/SA bersa in SA mode because that would be 3.5 pounds and a AD waiting to happen. I just don't like the fact that i have to flick off my safety when i draw vs just aim and sqeeze. Most of the time just drawing is enough to stop the bad guy but that one second more it takes to take that safety off might be all it takes for you to be done for. I am not a fan of the SRT sig's or glocks but i am a fan of kel-tec's, bersa's and arsenal. As one of the blackwater secuirty operators said in iraq while going into a green zone, my finger is my safety. If my finger is outside of the gun it shouldn't go off if it does thats the guns fault and not mine but i pay for it. No less if some B.S. like this was to happen on a no low end gun it would only prove the point that you really get what you paid for. all i heard on the bersa fourms was spend the extra but i'm trying keep postive and i also know someone who's looking for there first gun so if it don't work with me it will work with someone else.

*edited by neothespian for language... play on!*
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
The statement from the blackwater guy is kind of silly, because he's probably carrying a Sig P226 or a Beretta M9 with the hammer down.

If you don't want to use a safety, a chambered SA is not a safe option. The idea of carrying cocked & locked makes me a bit nervous, but it stands to reason that guys like Jeff Cooper & Massad Ayoob might have some idea of what they're talking about :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,349 Posts
Round chambered with safety off = bad, very bad
Round chambered with safety on = fine
Empty chamber in either state = fine, but slower than chambered w/ safety on

Like I said, flicking the safety as part of your draw seems to be a perfectly good plan, if you train yourself that way.
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
let me get this right, my C9 is a SA auto? but the glock is DA auto? You cock the glock and you also cock the C9 so aren't they both DA?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,018 Posts
The C9 is a single action striker fired pistol and should not be carried chambered with the safety off. I don't notice any perceptible diff in how fast I can get into action in IDPA safety on or off and yes we have timed our selves both ways in practice sessions.

Carrying without one in the chamber is 4 to 7 seconds slower and requires both hands.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
107 Posts
I'd take issue with that. Chambering a round doesn't take much more, if anymore, time than simply drawing. Drawing from the holster bringing it up to the chest to meet the left hand, and working the slide overhand as the pistol goes forward to present only takes 1 - 1.5 sec timed. Even a deliberate draw and chambering shouldn't take more than two seconds.

If you try it at home, use snap caps, not live ammo. I'll post some video if I get around to it and you can time it yourself.

My problem with carrying with an empty chamber is the fact that it takes two hands, which I may not have available when it's time to draw.

Flipping the safety off can be done on the draw, so I don't see any reason to disregard the safety.
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
A Glock is NOT a double action pistol in the traditional sense. When the slide on a Glock goes back, it partially cocks the internal hammer. The hammer is fully cocked (then released) when you pull the trigger. Glock calls this "Safe Action". Due to the light trigger pull, Glock recommends that you only use a holster that completely isolates the trigger, like the molded plastic ones.

A traditional DA pistol has a hammer that can be cocked from a completely lowered state, like a Sig P226, Beretta M92, Ruger P85, or similar. Subsequent shots from these pistols (unless manually decocked) are in single action, hence the light/short trigger pull. Usually, the DA trigger pull is around 10-12 lbs, meaning you can put the hammer down on a chambered round and *probably* not have the trigger accidentally pulled.

Hi-Points are single action, and due to the design, are cocked whenever a round is chambered. Their trigger pull (from what I'm told) is fairly light, so the safety MUST be used.

You might want to do some reading on how different guns work, especially the ones you own/use.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
19,442 Posts
personally i carry chamber empty and i train that way. it is slightly slower on teh draw (maybe 1/2-3/4 second) that just lfickin goff the safety but for the glocks i carry most of the time its the safest option. if you train with chamber empty you quickly fall into a rythm where you rack the slide while presenting the pistol that doesnt lsow you down much at all.

SW
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
25 Posts
I carry with a bullet chambered and the safety off. Of course by Kel Tec .32 that I conceal doesn't even have a safety. When my C9 is in the car it is also chambered and the safety off. As I've stated on a couple other posts here is what I learned in concealed carry class. The instructor which is a local sheriff's deputy says that he always carries his concealed gun chambered and with the safety off. He also told us that he recommends that we learn to do the same. He stated a gun 'never' accidently goes off. Somebody must pull the trigger. He also stated that you can practice all you want, getting the gun out of the holster, (chamber a bullet if it isn't) and take the safety off. When you are faced with a real-life situation of self defense you have a split second to make a decision as to what to do. He said the last thing you want to think about is chambering a bullet and taking the safety off. You're nerves will get the best of you and you will fumble around with the slide and the safety and by then it could be too late. It's a personal decision you have to make for yourself, but for me - I will always carry chambered with no safety.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
107 Posts
He also stated that you can practice all you want, getting the gun out of the holster, (chamber a bullet if it isn't) and take the safety off. When you are faced with a real-life situation of self defense you have a split second to make a decision as to what to do. He said the last thing you want to think about is chambering a bullet and taking the safety off. You're nerves will get the best of you and you will fumble around with the slide and the safety and by then it could be too late.
Right, only practicing when you're at the range won't cut it. Even once a week won't make it second nature. It has to done so much that it can be done without thinking. Fairbairn, in his book, Shooting To Live, writes that a 1911 should only be carried with an empty chamber, not for safety, but because taking the safety off is a fine motor skill, while racking the slide is a large motor skill, and when your adrenaline is pumping, fine motor skills become problematic. Again, that's the reason for repetitive training to the point that it's no fun anymore.

The same applies to reload, squeezing the trigger, etc. Train until you can do it without thinking about it.

When you start, you don't need to go full speed. Focus on being methodically precise, then work your way up to fast. As Paul Howe, says, "Smooth is fast."
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
really if your walking around without one in the pipe your better off with mace, you have to draw on me and rack the slide i mace you i so see it happening too.
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
He stated a gun 'never' accidently goes off. Somebody must pull the trigger.
Carrying any gun in Condition Zero (hammer back, safety off), which is exactly what you have with a chambered/no safety HP, is extremely dangerous. I can't believe any CCW instructor would do that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
107 Posts
I'm not saying that you should carry with an empty chamber, I'm just saying, if you are going to carry that way, you should train until it's second nature. Around the house I do carry that way. The same rule applies for carrying with a round in the chamber and the safety on. You should practice drawing so many times that the safety should come off without even thinking about. The pistol comes up and the safety comes off while the pistol is being presented.

Go ahead and mace me. I'll still shoot back. Besides, if I'm carrying concealed, unless you have X-ray vision, you're not going to be able to see what is or is not in the pipe. The gun comes out and goes bang in one second and it's pointed in your direction. In that case, you'd be better off punching me in the face than macing me.

FWIW, they say that to develop muscle memory to that degree, you're talking about 2000-3000 repetitions. That sounds like a lot, but, if you break it down, that's only drawing the pistol 36 - 60 times a week for one year, or, 100 times per day for one month. :D

I was just reading one case where an officer holstered his pistol, safety off, and the drawstring toggle on his jacket got holstered with it. When he took his jacket off, the drawstring tightened against the trigger and the gun went off in the holster. Stuff happens. Plan accordingly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
224 Posts
A Glock is NOT a double action pistol in the traditional sense. When the slide on a Glock goes back, it partially cocks the internal hammer. The hammer is fully cocked (then released) when you pull the trigger. Glock calls this "Safe Action". Due to the light trigger pull, Glock recommends that you only use a holster that completely isolates the trigger, like the molded plastic ones.
Yeah ask Plaxico Buress about ADs and a Glock, I doubt he pulled the trigger in his waistband.
I cant believe people are actually talking about walking around with a rd chambered and the safety off like it aint no thing. Especially with SA guns!!!! :blink: Its true with DA guns hammer down its fairly "safe" but I carry all my weapons with the safety on regardless of a chambered rd or not.WOW I cant believe this is even a discussion!!!
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top