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Same old questions on a new Ruger PC 9mm carbine...

2045 Views 42 Replies 10 Participants Last post by  undeRGRound, 
undeRGRound
Finding the same old answers, so thought I'd come home and just get the best available info 🤷‍♂️

"Is it +p rated" and I haven't seen anywhere that is stated, but one does see all the usual Yada-yada bs saying "it should handle it, Ruger has a good warranty, don't run a steady diet" and so forth.
So I'm fairly certain it's not officially rated +P but as some may know, I have a rather large store of 9mm NATO which works well in my experience, and provided that this firearm is like most out there, I will shoot NATO in this carbine. IMO it is the poor man's +P and I like the sealed bullets and primers. Long storage capable FOR THE WIN!!!
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lklawson
Well, according to the Ruger owners manual (link below):

Font Circle Number Rectangle Paper



Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
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undeRGRound
lklawson said:
Well, according to the Ruger owners manual (link below):

View attachment 77336


Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
Click to expand...
I saw a truncated version of that exact passage, on a ruger forum 🤡
Didn't mention the +p but then again, it was simply a reply on a forum. +P capable is awesome 👌

I'll have no problem at all running the NATO.
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moona11
Who would of thought to read the manual
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RACHGIER
moona11 said:
Who would of thought to read the manual
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Another nightmare carbine. 🤣
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ajole
Remember…being called NATO doesn’t make it NATO, nor does actually BEING NATO spec make it +P.

The NATO spec is for velocity, not pressure. It can include 115 or 124 grain bullets, too.
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RACHGIER
ajole said:
Remember…being called NATO doesn’t make it NATO, nor does actually BEING NATO spec make it +P.

The NATO spec is for velocity, not pressure. It can include 115 or 124 grain bullets, too.
Click to expand...
Remember....he's been told this no less than a dozen times and doesn't give a fuck because he's convinced NATO is +p...
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Visper
ajole said:
Remember…being called NATO doesn’t make it NATO
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Wait, you mean the internet lies!?!?!
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lklawson
ajole said:
Remember…being called NATO doesn’t make it NATO, nor does actually BEING NATO spec make it +P.

The NATO spec is for velocity, not pressure. It can include 115 or 124 grain bullets, too.
Click to expand...
Truth to be told NATO spec for 9mm really isn't that hard. It doesn't require any specialized technology beyond basic ammo factories. Handloaders can build them on their workbench easily enough.

"NATO Spec" is basically the new "Mil-Spec" in the less informed consumer's mind.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
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undeRGRound
ajole said:
Remember…being called NATO doesn’t make it NATO, nor does actually BEING NATO spec make it +P.

The NATO spec is for velocity, not pressure. It can include 115 or 124 grain bullets, too.
Click to expand...
Exactly. I'm just figuring Nato is gtg if it is +p rated. Sealed bullets and primers are also a bonus.
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undeRGRound
moona11 said:
Who would of thought to read the manual
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Not nearly as entertaining as the old home forum, and the room temperature IQ commentary 😹
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ajole
Frankly...if a $600+ weapon can't handle +p ammo....why would you buy it?


undeRGRound said:
Exactly. I'm just figuring Nato is gtg if it is +p rated. Sealed bullets and primers are also a bonus.
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You need to quit even bothering with the "NATO" label thing.

What you need to know is, if the stuff you bought in the white box with the red letters (or whatever) is +P, and if so, is that OK.

The answer, as you said, is yes....IF it's +P, it's gtg. So THAT's good news.(y)

But you still don't know if it's +P....or even really NATO. ;)
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B
Ruger told me today that while their American magwell adapter is available for the carbine, they are dropping the Ruger American pistol over the next two years.
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ajole
backbencher said:
Ruger told me today that while their American magwell adapter is available for the carbine, they are dropping the Ruger American pistol over the next two years.
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Just enough time to re-introduce the SR line, to match the .22 and the magwell.🤣
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undeRGRound
ajole said:
Frankly...if a $600+ weapon can't handle +p ammo....why would you buy it?




You need to quit even bothering with the "NATO" label thing.

What you need to know is, if the stuff you bought in the white box with the red letters (or whatever) is +P, and if so, is that OK.

The answer, as you said, is yes....IF it's +P, it's gtg. So THAT's good news.(y)

But you still don't know if it's +P....or even really NATO. ;)
Click to expand...
Why quit with Nato? It's decent ammo, with slightly better performance than regular SAAMI Pressure ammunition and all reasonable assumptions indicate it is not quite a +P so therefore safe in nearly all firearms made today by reputable manufacturers.

Now there is also imported stuff available that meets NATO weight/velocity specs, without the sealed primers, etc. but it's also priced like regular 115gr. I saw a Classic Firearms ad for that today. But it was sold out. Cheaper than Blazer Brass 115gr. Sonny-Boi bought a half case of 500 and he really likes it. I'm also thinking it should have a similar poi as any other 124gr projectile at those speeds. Plus, out of a carbine, it hits like hot 357mag from a revolver. It's just a great fit for the trajectory, power, price and groups I can get with my stuff. Is some of this perception? Most likely. Will it all be consistent case to case and box to box? Probably not. But now that I don't have to just "take what I can get" I'm trying to settle on a reasonably priced niche that checks the boxes that I've found works for me. And as they say...
YMMV
(your mileage may vary)

😜
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B
One of the downsides to 124 grn 9x19mm ammo is that it goes subsonic before 50 yds, hence the Army pistol team switched to 147 grn from the 4.9" bbl Berettas as the bullet never entered transsonic instability. Not a problem from a 16" carbine, of course - I think I worked out in Kuwait at 120 degree temps, I would need a 12.5" bbl to keep 124 supersonic to 50 yds. This may be why the Army switched to the 115 grn round w/ the SIG 320.
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G
Visper said:
Wait, you mean the internet lies!?!?!
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no the internet does not lie. I saw it posted on the internet that it does not lie so theres the proof right there.
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lklawson
ajole said:
Remember…being called NATO doesn’t make it NATO, nor does actually BEING NATO spec make it +P.
Click to expand...
Actually, it kinda does. It's just that SAAMI has no say in it.

The NATO spec is for velocity, not pressure. It can include 115 or 124 grain bullets, too.
Click to expand...
RACHGIER said:
Remember....he's been told this no less than a dozen times and doesn't give a fuck because he's convinced NATO is +p...
Click to expand...
Actually, NATO spec calls out both velocity and max pressure.

375 m/s minimum in their test barrel (I think it's 7" long or something)
Less than or equal to 2950 bar, which, after being adjusted for different measuring systems equates to 36,500 psi in SAAMI method (or 37,000 psi radial copper measure).

SAAMI max for 9mm Parabellum is 35,000, which is 1,500 psi less than max NATO spec but under the SAAMI max of 38,500 for +P. Anything falling between 35,000 and 38,500 would fall under SAAMI +P specs.

The confusion comes from the fact that the velocity is a required minimum which the pressure is a not-to-be-exceeded maximum. If the manufacturer can make the minimum velocity without exceeding SAAMI or CIP, then the NATO spec doesn't care. But NATO spec 9mm might exceed SAAMI max for standard pressure and you have no way to know if it does or doesn't. But NATO pressure spec does fall snugly in between SAAMI max for standard pressure and max for +P. Truthfully, this means that NATO spec 9mm probably is +P, you just don't have any way of knowing for sure.

So, actually, yes, 9mm NATO probably is +P most of the time.

Here's some off-site links:
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RACHGIER
lklawson said:
Actually, it kinda does. It's just that SAAMI has no say in it.


Actually, NATO spec calls out both velocity and max pressure.

375 m/s minimum in their test barrel (I think it's 7" long or something)
Less than or equal to 2950 bar, which, after being adjusted for different measuring systems equates to 36,500 psi in SAAMI method (or 37,000 psi radial copper measure).

SAAMI max for 9mm Parabellum is 35,000, which is 1,500 psi less than max NATO spec but under the SAAMI max of 38,500 for +P. Anything falling between 35,000 and 38,500 would fall under SAAMI +P specs.

The confusion comes from the fact that the velocity is a required minimum which the pressure is a not-to-be-exceeded maximum. If the manufacturer can make the minimum velocity without exceeding SAAMI or CIP, then the NATO spec doesn't care. But NATO spec 9mm might exceed SAAMI max for standard pressure and you have no way to know if it does or doesn't. But NATO pressure spec does fall snugly in between SAAMI max for standard pressure and max for +P. Truthfully, this means that NATO spec 9mm probably is +P, you just don't have any way of knowing for sure.

So, actually, yes, 9mm NATO probably is +P most of the time.

Here's some off-site links:
Click to expand...
And the long story short is, NATO 9mm ammo isn't truly +P because it's a 60/40 chance on the over/under of the SAAMI +P line and SAAMI themselves say its not really +P but it's warmer than the oldest 9mm handguns can handle.
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lklawson
RACHGIER said:
And the long story short is, NATO 9mm ammo isn't truly +P because it's a 60/40 chance on the over/under of the SAAMI +P line and SAAMI themselves say its not really +P but it's warmer than the oldest 9mm handguns can handle.
Click to expand...
Not exactly. The short version is that the NATO spec puts max pressure over that of SAAMI max for standard pressure.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
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